Alert !!!!/ Toad Air Brake Tn rally

[0533]

Bruce,

Mine failed exactly like yours: the small nipple shearing between the tank and regulator.

This has been re-engineered to eliminate the small nipple. Apparently, this has been the trouble spot. Even nipples that have been replaced have failed, which leads me to believe that it wasn't simply a batch of defective nipples in the original setup.

Good luck in your repairs. I know what a PIA it can be. The good news is that Peter will see to it that you get a replacement unit installed.

Thanks for the heads up on this Paul. It is a shame that AFO did not contact each of us to offer the fix, even if it was not the right one.

No one has mentioned the possibility that when this failure occurs while driving over the road, toad attached, maybe even heading down a steep grade finding ones self needing to apply full braking to both the bus and the toad, what then???

I am feeling a bit stupid, and somewhat skeptical now about Rally deals, doubt if I will ever fall prey to these types of carefully crafted products at rallies.

The fact is that even the so called mainstay products can fail, as my Blue OX did which led me down the AFO path in the first place.

I will report back when AFO has weighed in on how to handle the problem.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'm no engineer, but I know first hand how vibrations can destroy or disassemble almost anything, and if I were to guess a hard connection between the relay valve and the tank is likely subject to damaging vibrations.

I see no reason why both cannot be mounted to the coach frame up in the area near the tag axle three port Norgren and joined by means of a short length of flexible tubing.

That location may involve drilling some holes and either tapping them or inserting a riv-nut but then both components would be secure. There is also ample room on the bulkhead forward of the drive axle to install these components if drilling the drive/tag axle subframe is not permitted by Prevost. The point being that the quality and strength of the installation should be no less secure than the installation of our relay valves and air tanks.

[phorner]

Jon,

You are exactly right. The replacement components (tank and regulator) are joined by a short length of flexible tubing instead of the short nipple. This eliminates the problem of nipple failure, which was probably caused by some vibration or other harmonic occurence.

[0533]

Jon,

You are exactly right. The replacement components (tank and regulator) are joined by a short length of flexible tubing instead of the short nipple. This eliminates the problem of nipple failure, which was probably caused by some vibration or other harmonic occurence.

Kind wish that the good old boys at AFO had offered this repair to all of us lesser beings.

I am not too keen on crawling under my bus to make temporary repairs to be able to run down the road safely to have this dealt with by Prevost..

As a courtesy and as a good business practice we all should have been contacted and upgraded, and we simply were not.

[phorner]

In all fairness to SMI, they did, in fact, call me before I had a failure. They wanted to make arrangements to replace mine as they were seeing a pattern of failures on units installed at the POG rally. I informed them that at that point, and after several thousand miles, that everything seemed fine, yet they still wanted to swap mine out for the re-designed model.

Unfortunately, mine did fail, exactly as they described that it might, before they had a chance to change mine out. We were on our way to the FMCA Rally in St. Paul when it happened and Peter arranged to meet us on his way there to make the fix. The campground where this work took place is another story for another time

Peter did mention that he was trying to contact everyone that had had an installation performed in Tennessee so that he could make arrangements for the change.

[Will Garner]

Bruce,

First, let me say that I regret you seem to be having repetitive problems with your AFO Supplemental Braking system.

Second, I must also say that I have had excellent response to my communications with Peter Schenk, owner of SMI. In fact, we had told him of a possibility of being through Evansville in late June or early July. Our travel plans changed to where we would not have been going through Evansville. On the morning we were eastbound leaving Kansas City Peter called me to find out when he could expect me to be in Evansville for him to check my AFO installation and if necessary, install a new unit. We revised our travel plans to go to Evansville and have Peter check our unit. Turned out the unit was fine and I did not need a replacement. I did however inquire as to why I was killing batteries in my towed vehicle. Well when the towed brake pedal is pulled down by the AFO unit to apply towed vehicle brakes, my towed's factory brake lights come on also. Peter devised a cutout relay that takes the factory brake lights out of the equation when the AFO is active. No further problem with the battery. This modification was performed at no cost.

So finally let me say that communication is a two way street. It might be more beneficial to you and other POG members, to simply pick up your phone and give Peter a call. Here is their 800 number from their website which has a link directly from the POG opening page.

1-800-893-3763

Now for a little background information. Prior to purchasing a towed braking system I posted a question on the POG forum about towed braking systems. I did not care to have another device to install and remove from the towed vehicle. Yes, I researched M&G but they do/did not make a unit for my towed vehicle. They say there is no room under my towed's hood for their unit. I got feedback from Lew and he had an AFO in a Saturn towed with which he was satisfied. Now Lew just does not go spreading Lewbucks everywhere so I thought maybe there is something I can get done with an AFO unit. I got in touch with Peter before the Sevierville Rally and he was willing to come to the rally to do my installation and use my installation as a seminar for the rally. It was not his intention to sell everyone a system since he only brought two with him. He had to get other units shipped in to meet the numerous POG member requests for installations on their towed vehicles.

I think you said earlier that a Prevost shop did the upgrade following the first failure. If the location of the installation was a problem it seems to me as if they could have moved the unit with little effort and there would be no need for this discussion.

Again, I regret you are having this problem, I am joyous that there was not a safety consequence, and I am certain that Peter Schenk will stand behind his product.

I do hope you get a permanent fix for your problem this time around.

[0533]

In all fairness to SMI, they did, in fact, call me before I had a failure. They wanted to make arrangements to replace mine as they were seeing a pattern of failures on units installed at the POG rally. I informed them that at that point, and after several thousand miles, that everything seemed fine, yet they still wanted to swap mine out for the re-designed model.

Unfortunately, mine did fail, exactly as they described that it might, before they had a chance to change mine out. We were on our way to the FMCA Rally in St. Paul when it happened and Peter arranged to meet us on his way there to make the fix. The campground where this work took place is another story for another time

Peter did mention that he was trying to contact everyone that had had an installation performed in Tennessee so that he could make arrangements for the change.

I guess he did not have my phone number. I plan on calling him today to make arrangements for the fix.

Thanks again Paul, will let you know the outcome.

PS> Do you have a good number and Email for Peter??

Thanks

[phorner]

Bruce,

Try 812-483-3507. Their main number is 800-893-3763.

I know first hand just how frustrating this can be. I am confident that Peter will do everything he can to make things right for you.

Be safe....

[Denny]

Ditto on what Paul said; I posted the same on #51 of this thread. With all of the legal ramifications involved, I think Peter is protecting himself and also trying to keep the customers, that's us, happy. He has gone out of his way to contact us when the first problems arose and to resolve the problems. He posted on POG letting everyone know there that there was a problem. Monday morning quarterbacking, I would purchase the system again.

Peter is a fine Christian man and runs his business with good Christian ethics and will see that this problem is corrected to Bruce's satisfaction.

[0533]

Ditto on what Paul said; I posted the same on #51 of this thread. With all of the legal ramifications involved, I think Peter is protecting himself and also trying to keep the customers, that's us, happy. He has gone out of his way to contact us when the first problems arose and to resolve the problems. He posted on POG letting everyone know there that there was a problem. Monday morning quarterbacking, I would purchase the system again.

Peter is a fine Christian man and runs his business with good Christian ethics and will see that this problem is corrected to Bruce's satisfaction.

I do not question Peters integrity. I feel it is my duty to inform all POG members (As I did the first time) to allow each of you to both examine your own install and weigh in on what we should be inspecting and "WHY" and "HOW" to ensure a proper repair and provide for a long term and safe operation.

I really belief that Peter has actually benefited from the responses from people like Jon and Orren and others who have years of experience with Prevost Buses and can offer first hand input and useful ideas to overcome this very real problem that can compromise safety.

This forum has many self employed entrepreneurial men and women participating, and each including myself who wants this system to work out for its inventor (Peter) we, I just want the bugs worked out and the system to have the same robust install and life expectancy as the rest of the Bus.

I like the idea when I first saw it, I did not try and haggle over the price, I assumed that Peter new and understood the Prevost bus and the necessary install that was needed to create a satisfactory and safe installation in this critical aspect of the operation of the bus.

I am sure like you that Peter will offer his response and will do what is necessary to make this right for me and all others who have the system in their buses.

I also know that Peter needs to create a better mousetrap for Prevost Buses than he has currently out in the field and my two failures are a good example of what can and has happened.

When Peter responds to my email to him, pics etc. I am sure he will offer his planned solution for retrofitting our buses.