Florida Trip - Bus Shoppin...

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gordon,

Don't get too scared about the after purchase expenses. They are discretionary. If you need to upgrade the interior, add flat screen TVs or do any other big budget items look for a coach where that stuff is done. The residual value of those upgrades is almost zero so let the previous owner take the hit financially.

[Loc]

Gordon,

We have purchased two buses. I planned on an expenditure of 10% of the purchase price of each bus to fix needed items like tires, batteries, and other anticipated needs. I spent about 8% on the first bus in the first year. I have spent about 5% on the second bus in the first year. Even if you have great maintenance records count on having some expenses. I hit the 10% target on both buses by the second year. These are great machines but they are not cheap to keep.

[GDeen]

Thanks Loc - 10% is what I have estimated based on the condition I want to buy the bus in the first place. Since we have decided to go with no slides, that should cover quite a lot of repair.

Gordon,

We have purchased two buses. I planned on an expenditure of 10% of the purchase price of each bus to fix needed items like tires, batteries, and other anticipated needs. I spent about 8% on the first bus in the first year. I have spent about 5% on the second bus in the first year. Even if you have great maintenance records count on having some expenses. I hit the 10% target on both buses by the second year. These are great machines but they are not cheap to keep.

[0533]

Gordon,

Don't get too scared about the after purchase expenses. They are discretionary. If you need to upgrade the interior, add flat screen TVs or do any other big budget items look for a coach where that stuff is done. The residual value of those upgrades is almost zero so let the previous owner take the hit financially.

Jon, your assumption is somewhat skewed based on your own skill levels in my opinion.

If the first time buyer does not have access to this forum or your skills, it is possible to find oneself with some large expense items out of the gate that get missed during the purchase process.

I do not think that most first time buyers (me included) think that a low mileage bus (7, to 10 years old ) would necessarily need all new house batteries, tires, shocks, or bags, chassis batteries, and more, and might not fully understand the cost for the above along with the other stuff, it can add up quickly.

What's more unless you hire an independent survey of your desired purchase the number could rise significantly, as the dealer/seller in most cases will not offer the negative details knowing that it will not benefit the sale in his favor.

Buses are nothing like plastic RV's, the size, the construction, the safety requirements, the air systems, all of it is much different than what most plastic RV owners have been used to. So the transition from plastic to stainless is a large step and should be made with eyes open and with some really careful investigation and commitment to inspecting the underbelly of each bus under consideration before making the purchase.

I do not care who is selling the bus, manufacturer, best dealer in the world, nicest little old lady school teacher or the crown prince of ??. The purchase is just the starting point.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Bruce,

I have to strongly disagree.

First, tires, batteries, a full maintenance are all negotiable items. You buy a coach cheap to reflect you will replace them, or you make the seller do them to close the deal, or you and the seller agree on some price that reflects their replacement.

None of the above requires any skill level beyond doing a little homeowrk by reading this site.

Obviously as coaches age other items such as air bags and Norgren valves, brake chambers and shock absorbers loom as an expense. Again, reading the many posts on this site makes a buyer aware there is more to a bus than oil changes. But even if the buyer has no mechanical skills the cost to replace and maintain these doesn't even begin to come close to the real expense of bus ownership which is depreciation.

If I had to spend $4000 to replace air bags that is about $400 per year considering their ten year life. Everything else I mentioned is substantially less. If you do the work yourself costs obviously are less, but even paying someone to maintain the coach when the costs are annualized they just are not that much compared to the loss of earnings on the invested capital.

Tires are going to vary based on the sizes used, but I doubt if any of us spends more than $1500 annually for tires which last 6 years with care, or $500 per year on batteries which last 5 years with care.

My point is the serious money spent on these buses is depreciation and discretionary items (like the big bucks a guy spent putting fat tires on his bus). Beyond that all dollars are for fuel and routine maintenance.

BTW, (I'm going to pull your chain here......) when you had Prevost analyze the electrical problem as an isolator you paid them serious money to do what I had asked you to do on this site. Had you done what I asked it would have taken a few minutes of your time and then all it would have cost you was the cost of the isolator and the time to deal with about 7 fasteners. Owners decide by their actions how much owning these buses cost. This site has many people that will give freely of their time to lead an owner to the most effective and least expensive way to address a need.

[truk4u]

Buses are nothing like plastic RV's, the size, the construction, the safety requirements, the air systems, all of it is much different than what most plastic RV owners have been used to.

Bruce,

I don't think the step to a bus from a plastic, all electric, 45' diesel pusher is such a big deal. You mention size, air systems and safety requirements, all of which the plastic coaches have, but will have somewhat different systems. They are going to have issues with electrical and air just like we have and I don't get the safety requirement comment. I've had both and I think the buses have cost me less than the plastic out of warranty pushers.

One thing for certain, the bus support whether it's Prevost or the Converter, puts the entire plastic industry to shame!

[garyde]

So far, tires have been the largest single cost. Even with tires you have a choice in costs . I've replaced all batteries at reasonable costs. All maintenance has been pretty reasonable. No big expenses to date.

[0533]

Gee Jon, I guess I hit a sensitive cord.

Your response actually reinforces my point.

If the first time buyer does not have access to this forum or your skills, it is possible to find oneself with some large expense items out of the gate that get missed during the purchase process.

You and many others speak with authority, much experience, (Bus Barn/replete with Pit) and years of ownership, and in some cases several bus purchases.

I was referring to the "NEW" buyer who was transitioning from a plastic RV to a BUS. There are so many reasons to be careful in this transition that differ from a plastic bus. Example: Many Plastic RV owners purchased their units new with warrantee's, some warrantee's 3 years, so these folks expected they would have access to service without question for this period.
A used Bus is a very different animal, and the learning curve is greater as well. That was my point.

No body in my opinion buys a bus, and views it like one would an aircraft that is used for business. We were all trained to view aircraft this way and considered each hour with a specified expense item. If anyone purchases a bus with the idea that it is not a depreciating asset, he is delusional in my opinion. Buses are toys and toys are an expense.

PS> The Fat tires really make for a better safer ride which is why they are standard equipment on newer XLII's today. Yes I paid too much.

The electrical issue was another thing, it was complicated (above my pay grade) by the fact that when Marathon in it's infinite wisdom decided to move the regulator output monitoring to the house side (instead of the Chassis) on a single 270 alternator bus installation which does play havoc with the chassis side if there is an issue with the house batteries. Yes I did have 2 issues to deal at one time, and yes I did trip over my feet, I am good at this , had some company along with Prevost Car and Marathon until we determined how Marathon modified the regulator monitoring which is the case on all single 270 alternator coaches. I am having a second chassis alternator installed. some times it is the little stuff that converters forget to share that can cause big problems unless you know in advance.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Bruce,

You are correct in that a new buyer who has not found his way here prior to the purchase may expose him or herself to some serious after purchase expenses.

This is especially the case when the decor becomes the deciding factor and the salesman says these are million mile buses without explaining that they reach that milestone by getting good routine maintenance.

The focus is on the cost to own one of these buses. A buyer that does not use all the resources available becomes a test pilot and assumes a lot of risk. A buyer that uses forums like this to learn the market, the specifics about coaches of interest, how to evaluate a prospective purchase, and where to tap into available expertise has saved thousands, and maybe tens of thousands compared to the buyer who has done no homework.

But we on this forum are talking to potential Prevost owners who are in fact doing their homework. Apart from routine maintenance these new buyers will have few if any surprises, and any serious money they spend after the purchase will likely be at their option, not because they overlooked something.

We cannot help those that will not help themselves.

When I bought the first bus there was no resources such as the internet or forums of this type. Before we closed the deal we looked at as many coaches as possible, we visited a converter and asked a lot of dumb questions, I spoke to Harvey Mitchell who sold the coach to the previous owners and who knew the coach very well, and then I had a converter (Don Hoffman of Hoffman Coaches) do a 100% inspection. My wife liked the decor, but I was all over that coach mechanically with Don and it turned out to be a trouble free coach that only required routine stuff.

No mechanical aptitude is required to own a coach, only a willingness to pay attention to details and do some homework.

[jelmore]

I think I'll have to side with Bruce a bit on this. When we were looking, I joined this forum and got some great advice. I knew absolutely nothing about these machines. We had an older plastic coach a few years ago that the most expensive thing ever done was replace the radiator. I could not believe that would cost $700. And then we got the bus. The advice here, and what I was looking for, was converter advice. Didn't know what else to ask. The coach we decided on from a private party had been at Liberty and Mellinium on consignment. Both told us what a great coach it was and what good condition it was in. The guy we bought it from had a private mechanic that took care of it for him. They both said the tires were great, the batteries new, that he was recognized as the king of car sales in Chicago, never advertised because he was such a good guy and everybody bought from him and were very happy. Customer was number one. He showed us all his glorious press clippings. The coach was only driven by his driver and was only used for transportation for his wife because she didn't like to fly on his jet. We were snowed.

Why didn't I ask more technical questions here? Because I had no idea what to ask about things I didn't even know about. We bought it for quite a bit less than an identical coach sold for at Liberty at the same time, so when the expenses started adding up, we thought we had that margin built in. Tires, batteries, suspension, satellite dish, inverter wiring, and on and on took their toll. Surely we could have made those expenses discretionary, but if it's not right, it gets fixed. We have no regrets because we now have a coach that we know is in great condition.

Going in, we had no idea what lay ahead. I think we had on those rose colored glasses. If buying a bus was purely a logical choice, I'm sure we would never have been on this adventure. But heck, it's only money and a whole lot of fun.