I checked my box, and it is perfectly stable, but I woud still like to know I have guarded against a future failure of the rivets.
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I checked my box, and it is perfectly stable, but I woud still like to know I have guarded against a future failure of the rivets.
I'll take one also. I have checked my XL II it appears to be the same set up, mine is snug now but better safe than sorry. Thanks for the heads up.
I checked mine this AM and it is sound and sturdy. I noted that it was not riveted but large screws holding it to the bulhead with a sealing substance smeared around as though to keep the screws in place. Not shiny but then, it was really solid.
The fasteners going through the bracket into the coach bulkhead are not the issue. The problem is the four pop rivets through the bracket, into the rear of the box, not visible until the box separates from the bracket are the weak point. Hangman is correct. The bracket is attached to the coach bulkhead and has some kind of sealant or caulking between it and the bulkhead. There is no sealant or caulking between the box and the side brackets.
Me too Jon...
Progress is being made.
I am having a prototype of the design being made and with any luck I will have it installed on my coach and checked before I leave for Tampa.
I will post photos of it here (assuming it works as expected) and will get the brackets produced.
If the brackets work as planned some existing holes will be used and only 4 holes (into the box) will have to be drilled. I will include installation instructions with the brackets. If things work out the price will be free. This is a one shot deal, so if you are interested post it here. What would make it easier on my end would be if someone can gather up all the mailing addresses and email the list to me. Put them in a format so I can just cut the addresses out and use them as postage labels.
Boilerplate: The true fix for the problem is as described by Bill Jensen, and that is to use stainless steel pop rivets in place of the aluminum pop rivets installed by the factory. Increasing the size of the rivets was also recommended. I know from my repair work that to do that requires the box to be removed, layed on its face (requiring further disassembly such as some hoses and the oil pressure gauge and associated lines), the old rivets drilled out, enlarged holes, and new stainless steel pop rivets installed.
The brackets will serve as a temporary fix until such time as that work can be done, or as an alternative will supplement the existing pop rivets. It is important that even with the brackets in place the integrity of the original pop rivets be checked periodically, and if loose or broken they should be replaced.
Jon I would like a set.
GregM
Jon, thanks for the clarification and your follow up. I would like a set also please
If my set up is in danger I too would buy a set of the brackets Jon..
Thank you...
Viv
Eric Faires volunteers for this duty, so send me Private Message on this list in following format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg
Full Name
Mailing Address
City, State, Zip
If you live in a warm area, I might even hand deliver your set via motorcycle.
Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN
92 Angola 40 foot
I have received mailing addresses from eight people so far. Just had this thought, and sorry to bother those of you who have already responded, but if the items will be shipped UPS, they like to have phone number. So, PLEASE ADD YOUR PHONE NUMBER when you respond to me, and for the eight of you (Michael Terry, Paul Horner, Greg Meiling, Dale Farley, Jim Chaloupka, Ted DeLorme, Elliott McLeod, and Ray Davis) who have already responded to me via Private Message, would you please send me another WITH your phone number? Thank you all.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobimmer
Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN
I was thinking of regular mail. As opposed to supporting the gummint that I am, I am making a concession to my lazy side. No phone number's needed.
thanks Eric and Jon....
To Jon go all thanks for identifying issue, engineering a solution, and knowing "someone" with the ability and willingness to manufacture the solution, all at an extremely attractive price. I'm simply writing names and addresses down as they come in via Private Message. I think I"m at 20 names so far (including Jon). Guess I should go through this Thread to see how many folks said they want a set if they have not sent me a PM yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by GDeen
Eric Faires
I just rolled through all posts in the Thread. Here are the names who said they want a set but have not yet sent me their mailing addresses.
Mike/Jean Simmons
Hector Duplichen
Richard Barnes
Ken Zittrer
Tom Chilcote
Tony Conder
Gary Deinhard
Larry W.
Jim Shoen
Rodger and Faye (rahangman)
Vivian
Those of you in list above, please send me your snail mail address so I can compile list for Jon when it's time to mail the brackets. Thank you all.
Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN
I will take a set, just sent Eric my mailing address in private msg.
Jon & Eric,
Thanks for doing this.
Eric,
Please list those who you already have so no one slips through the cracks.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
There will be no slipping through cracks. List is comprehensive either from post on this Thread or PM to me or email response to my request for their address. Folks for whom I do not yet have addresses have been contacted by email if they have an email listed on POG.
Here is list I have so far, with addresses.
Richard Barnes (GA)
Larry Beer (WA)
John Browder (TN)
Jim Chaloupka (OH)
Tony Conder (TX)
Ray Davis (CA)
Gordon Deen (TX)
Gary Deinhard (CA)
Ted DeLorme (TX)
Andre Ducote (FL)
Eric Faires (TN)
Dale Farley (FL)
Patrick Fix (TX)
Rodger Hang (AR)
Warren Holm (CA)
Paul Horner (FL)
Jim Keller (FL)
Elliott McLeod (WA)
Greg Meiling (OR)
Pete Petree (TX)
George Phillips (IN)
Denny Robb (OH)
Mike Simmons (CA)
Kim Sloan (FL)
Dan Smith (MS)
Michael Terry (GA)
Granvil Tracy (FL)
Larry Walker (CO)
No addresses yet list.
Tom Chilcote (GA)
Hector Duplichen (TX)
Jim Shoen (?)
Vivian ______ (NJ)
Ken Zittrer (CA)
Count me in too. Will pm info.
Eric,
Add me to the list. I have already had to replace the rivets on the enclosure door hinge. I'd guess the ones holding the enclosure to the rear firewall will be next.
W. C. Garner, Jr.
325 Country Club Drive
Southern Pines, NC
28387
(910) 690-5631
Hope they get here before the enclosure falls off!
Jon,
After looking real close at my panel, it doesn't have the same style bracket as yours. Mine has a steel lip (flat channel) on the two sides and bottom that seems to be be part of the box and is screwed to the bulkhead. It doesn't appear to be a bracket. The box has been tack welded to the bulkhead at the top.
What am I missing? Could mine be better than yours....:p
Attachment 5785
Right side
Attachment 5786
Box is tack welded in the dark area below the obvious two spot welds
Attachment 5787
Left bottom side
Jon I checked my box and all seems good and tight but might as well add my name to the list for a set, Thanks Bill
Truk,
You do not have the bracket to which the box is riveted. yours appears to have the box built with a flange that is screwed to the bulkhead. The screws have not failed, but on the boxes with the bracket it is the pop rivets holding the box to the bracket which have failed.
Check your door hinge rivets. They are generally the first to fail.
Here is updated list of 35 sets so far.
Here is list I have so far, with addresses.
Richard Barnes (GA)
Larry Beer (WA)
Buzz Browder (FL)
Bill Bunch (SC)
Jim Chaloupka (OH)
Tom Chilcote (GA)
Tony Conder (TX)
Ray Davis (CA)
Gordon Deen (TX)
Gary Deinhard (CA)
Ted DeLorme (TX)
Andre Ducote (FL)
Hector Duplichen (TX)
Eric Faires (TN)
Dale Farley (FL)
Patrick Fix (TX)
Rodger Hang (AR)
Warren Holm (CA)
Paul Horner (FL)
Jim Keller (FL)
Elliott McLeod (WA)
Greg Meiling (OR)
Pete Petree (TX)
George Phillips (IN)
Denny Robb (OH)
Mike Simmons (CA)
Kim Sloan (FL)
Dan Smith (MS)
Michael Terry (GA)
Granvil Tracy (FL)
Larry Walker (CO)
Jon Wehrenberg (TN)
Ken Zittrer (CA)
No addresses yet list.
Jim Shoen (?)
Vivian ______ (NJ)
I would like to add something to look for when inspecting your rear electrical box. With the door open, you will find on the inside roof an aluminum inner roof attached with rivets. I had 2 of my rivets holding this inner roof broken. This aluminum panel is what Prevost attaches all the relays and other items to. It would not be a good thing if this broke free!
Have you guys considered fastening the bracket to the box with rivnuts instead of rivets?
David Brady
'02 Blue Bird, Wanderlodge, LXi,
Asheville, NC
Unless the box has fallen down it is a major PITA to drop it down, drill out existing pop rivets and resecure the bracket to the box. The rear of the electric box inside is not accessible because of the masonite board that has been populated with terminals, relays, resistors, diodes and circuit breakers.
Getting the box down and on its face so the pop rivets are accessible involves not only removing the screws holding the brackets to the bus bulkhead, but also cutting a number of nylon ties, removing some small coolant lines and removing the rear oil pressure gauge and sending unit. Without a doubt rivnuts would work but I doubt if many here want to go to the effort.
What the goal is here is to reinforce all boxes that have not had a failure of the pop rivets so the total reliance on the pop rivets is supplemented with a second bracket that can carry some of the load and possibly prevent the pop rivets from failing.
The prototype angle brackets have been installed and the installation was simple and only took an hour, and that included taking photos.
Eric has been collecting addresses and when the brackets are manufactured the addresses will be used for the shipping labels. This is the last chance for anyone that needs the brackets to reinforce the electric box to let Eric know your address.
Below are photos of the brackets installed.
I suggest a donation be collected for the brackets and sent to Jon's Daughter's Company for all the work or to Pilots & Paws, Jon's call! How about 30.00 per bus?;)
Still need snail mail addresses from Vivian and Jim Shoen. In addition, since the "Install Instructions" will be sent to each of you via email, I will need your email address where you will want "Install Instructions" sent. Sorry I didn't get this information from you all earlier, and I don't know many of the nicknames (screen names) you all use on POG sit, so please send me Private Message (just like you did when sending me your snail mail address) with your email so I can put it next to your name for sending the Install Instructions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg
Thank you all.
Eric Faires
Eric, if it's not to late I also would like a set. I will send you my info. Thanks
Howdy all from beautiful East Tennessee.
I did better than I thought finding email addresses on the POG site.
Below is list of folks for whom I have snail mail addresses. Double Asterisk (**) indicates I have found your email address on POG site so DO NOT NEED TO SEND THAT TO ME. If no ** by your name, send me your email address please via Private Message on POG site. Thanks.
Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN
Richard Barnes** (GA)
Larry Beer (WA)
Robert Boies** (SC)
Buzz Browder (FL)
Bill Bunch** (SC)
Jim Chaloupka** (OH)
Tom Chilcote** (GA)
Tony Conder** (TX)
Ray Davis** (CA)
Gordon Deen** (TX)
Gary Deinhard (CA)
Ted DeLorme** (TX)
Andre Ducote** (FL)
Hector Duplichen** (TX)
Brian Esler** (WA)
Eric Faires (TN)
Dale Farley** (FL)
Patrick Fix (TX)
Rodger Hang** (AR)
Warren Holm** (CA)
Paul Horner** (FL)
Jim Keller** (FL)
Elliott McLeod (WA)
Greg Meiling** (OR)
Pete Petree (TX)
George Phillips** (IN)
Denny Robb** (OH)
Mike Simmons** (CA)
Kim Sloan (FL)
Dan Smith** (MS)
Michael Terry** (GA)
Granvil Tracy** (FL)
Sid Tuls** (CA)
Larry Walker (CO)
Jon Wehrenberg** (TN)
Ken Zittrer** (CA)
No snail mail addresses yet list.
Jim Shoen (?)
Vivian ______** (NJ)
In case the seriousness of having the electric box come loose hasn't been well enough explained, I took a photo yesterday of the bottom of my electric box showing the electric posts. On the left is the ground post. The two posts to the right are 12V and 24V DC. If you look inside the box you will see these are fed by very large cables so the potential is significant.
Thank goodness the caps on my box are insulated and the caps did not fail when the box came loose. If the insulation on the posts had failed I would have had a dead short because the ground post and the 12V and 24V posts were all sitting on the air intake tube and the paint had worn to bare metal.
A short would have tripped the major chassis circuit breakers, and the result would have been a bus that suddenly stopped running. I cannot predict what other damage could have occurred, but can say sufficient current could have flowed to blow holes in the intake tube.
I am having some extra sets made so if you do want to be added to the list let Eric have your snail mail and email address. If anyone wants more details of what is involved let Eric have your email address and he can forward the installation instructions.
Below is list of folks to whom I have sent, via email, the "Install Instructions" from Jon Wehrenberg.
Eric Faires
Huntsville, TN
This is the list of folks I emailed "Install Instructions" to earlier this evening. If you didn't get the email from me, send me a Private Message on POG and I'll resend. Better give me your email address again, too, if I messed it up the first time.
Richard Barnes** (GA) - SENT
Robert Boies** (SC) - SENT
Bill Bunch** (SC) - SENT
Jim Chaloupka** (OH) - SENT
Tom Chilcote** (GA) - SENT
Tony Conder** (TX) - SENT
Ray Davis** (CA) - SENT
Gordon Deen** (TX) - SENT
Ted DeLorme** (TX) - SENT
Andre Ducote** (FL) - SENT
Hector Duplichen** (TX) - SENT
Brian Esler** (WA) - SENT
Eric Faires (TN) - SENT
Dale Farley** (FL) - SENT
Rodger Hang** (AR) - SENT
Warren Holm** (CA) - SENT
Paul Horner** (FL) - SENT
Jim Keller** (FL) - SENT
Greg Meiling** (OR) - SENT
Pete Petree** (TX) - SENT
George Phillips** (IN) - SENT
Denny Robb** (OH) - SENT
Mike Simmons** (CA) - SENT
Dan Smith** (MS) - SENT
Gary Stevens** (TX) - SENT
Michael Terry** (GA) - SENT
Granvil Tracy** (FL) - SENT
Sid Tuls** (CA) - SENT
Larry Walker** (CO) - SENT
Jon Wehrenberg** (TN)
Ken Zittrer** (CA) - SENT
Vivian ______** (NJ) - SENT
No email addresses from these folks, so no instructions sent yet.
Larry Beer (WA)
Buzz Browder (FL)
Gary Deinhard (CA)
Patrick Fix (TX)
Elliott McLeod (WA)
Jim Shoen (?)
Kim Sloan (FL)
Hi Eric, thanks for sending the instructions. I couldn't open the attachment and was wondering if anybody else was having the same problem? Maybe it's me:confused:
Sid,
I couldn't open it at first, because I don't have Microsoft Works on my computer. I just upgraded to Windows 7. I used Microsoft Word to open the file, and it worked fine.
Thanks Dale I'll e-mail it to my boys e-mail @ the ranch and have him try it. Thank-you
If problems with opening the file exist perhaps I can send it to Jim Skiff and he can post it as an article. I would want it removed from the POG site within a short period of time because this is a one time offer and I wouldn't want new future members to get frustrated trying to get brackets that aren't going to be made again.
If anyone can not open it, just send me an email and we'll resend in another format. I've already done this for a number of people this morning after Deb showed me how. I'm happy to do it for others, too. Just respond on the email I sent you, and that will be my trigger to resend. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg
Eric Faires
Thanks Eric and Debie for the additional work involved getting some of us the installation information. I recieved it and am able to reveiw it just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobimmer
Thanks again Jon, for you and your daughters work on this.
Now if I can only get this project done, without screwing something else up on the bus ? :eek: :D