Kalifornia at it again

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Originally Posted by Jerry Winchester

Mel Torme


No you dodged that bullet. You bought (a) a Jeep you don't like and (b) a Denali you can't tow.

So now you have two POS vehicles instead of a POS Hummer. Must be that East Texas math working in there somewhere.

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JDUB, BITE ME!! And if you decide to tow that ugly orange Scout, don't forget to slide your big butt underneath with a 1/2" combo wrench and take the driveshaft out. Is that the same truck your grandparents made the Oklahoma land rush in??
I'm Fed-Xing a Chia Obama to your office Monday so be on the lookout.:D

John, thanks for the assist. I was on the phone with a tech guy at Remco while we were driving home. He made the comment, "not even around the block." I knew I was screwed early on.

I have a great Deisel Ford 4x4 and Gas GMC 4x4, and a nice 98 side step F150 PU. Those are everyday trucks and I have had very little problem with any of them. Like Kevin, I would tow my GMC 4x4 twin cab PU. Lots of room and space in the back.
We have some foriegn cars as well, but I drive day in and day out Fords and GMC's.
As far as the Koreans, Japanese, and others, I used to buy Toyota trucks but decided to move to Ford years ago. My kids drive Honda's and Toyotas because they are pretty dependable and I don't have to be constantly paying for repairs.
When I grow up I want to be like Jon and purchase an H2 to add to the mix.
Would'nt mind a Vet as well.
I do need a larger garage.

I just attended the Great Western truck show in Las Vegas and the CTA (California trucking association) put on a 2 day seminar about the new smog rules for diesel engined vehicles 16,000 lbs and over. This will also include a lot of things you don't think about- diesel generators-refer units (like on semi trailers)-lots of stuff.

You won't like the first part-If one has a engine with EGR (2003-2006) you can now convert that baby to the new specs for $25-30,000. They're doing them now.

If you're fortunate to have one thats a 2007-2009 you can get away with a $15-20,000 upgrade.

If you're older than 2003 those vehicles basically will be phased out by 2014-2015 unless you're updating your fleet with newer units that give you "credits" towards your total fleets numbers.

Those with three or less units basically get a extra three year window to upgrade.

Now the good news-RV'S are exempt for now. Sometime in the next 5 or so years you'll see many of these dirt haulers and local guys just vanish. The outcry will be so loud I wouldn't be surprised to learn of some of the rules being pushed back but you never know. Just thought you'd like to know.

IMO I see uncle Sam doing the exact same thing in private homes and that is how they are going to shove these electric cars down our throats and still allow the suv's and PU's at the same time.

Households will also be given credits for the energy efficient wheels and you will HAVE to have one to offset the gas guzzler if you choose to keep it.

Time will tell, I hope I am wrong.

Are the states surrounding Kalifornia ready for all the new residents they are about to get?

My first reaction was we are witnesses to the death of Kalifornia.

The real estate agents in the states surrounding Kalifornia are surely looking forward to an influx of buyers.

And, buyers desperate to escape overbearing regulation may not haggle as much when it comes to price..... they will just want out and want it now!

The cities and counties surrounding Kalifornia should also see the population shift as a way to increase their respective tax revenues...... with the exact opposite happening in Kalifornia which will further stress their economy in an ever steepening downward spiral.

Over-regulation, at some point, will always force the thinking and productive populace to flee.

Rick: I agree with you 100% that the dealer cuts were to get rid of whoever they wanted. Dealers do not cost the manufacturers hardley any money. Dealers own or finance everything on their property , except the Brand Sign, and with the domestics, the dealer leases that sign. It was pure BS when the manufacturers said they had to cut dealers to cut expenses. They also said they were over dealered in some areas and that is true, and had they corrected that, there might have been some justification. They just cut who they wanted. Here in Mississippi Chrysler cut a dealer who had just spent 6 million on a new facility 7 months ago. The dealer is left with that note and nothing to sell. The factories have absolutely wiped out and bankrupted many successful dealers all over the country! It is an absolute shame what they have been allowed to do. Dealers have worked for many years to set up motor vehicle commissions to regulate lousy dealers and to keep factories from forcing dealers to do things that are bad for them and to
keep factories from terminating dealers without good cause. Chrysler and GM just trashed all of the protections dealers have worked so hard for.

The letters that GM required ALL GM dealers who were staying to sign says that the dealer will do whatever GM wants them to do (take all the vehicles they want them to take, build or remodel their facility however they want and whenever they want, increase their sales substantially, etc.) or they agree ahead that GM can terminate them and they cannot sue GM!!! If a dealer refused to sign the letter, they were terminated immediately! 38 dealers refused to sign and that was the 38 additional dealers GM terminated.

All of this has been done with the oversight of the Obama administration. Quite frankly, I am concerned that our country can handle all of the socialist crap coming out of Washington at present.

Ed & Rick,

Thanks for some insight into the auto dealer problems from someone who is in the business and not just expressing opinions. Most of us really don't know the inner workings of the dealerships and how they're structured.

PS - I always count my fingers after shaking hands with the King!

The real problem with California is AlGore/Waxman/Pelosi/Obama are using it as a model for the country with their new initiatives.

Does their use of the Kalifornia model include thinking about the economic impact or will that be blamed on other factors?

I think I have it figured out....

This Administration takes credit for anything positive.... like Al Gore inventing the internet.....while they "inherited" everything negative.

See, it's simple :)

Paul,

I don't think, I know you have figured it out.

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Originally Posted by dalej

Paul,

I don't think, I know you have figured out.

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Now if we could just figure out how to stop him before he totally destroys our country. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg

Does their use of the Kalifornia model include thinking about the economic impact or will that be blamed on other factors?

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Oh that is easy Jon, and you know it....just like California's special formulation requirements for gasoline which makes it more expensive to manufacture. Obviously that means more expensive gas for the consumers. The powers that be though fairly successfully blamed it on oil company gouging.

Just wait until the cap and trade (tax and tax) program causes everyones energy bills to go up. They will blame it on someone else and likely get away with it because the rank and file are too stupid to think for themselves.

Almost every industrialized country in the world has now tapped the brakes on radical global warming legislation because they have come to realize the science is far from clear. Not us, we are going to barge headlong into initiatives that folks have no idea the ramifications for our economy because the political science is clear. Even Algore has stopped calling it global warming because he can't prove that. Now it is just the catchall "climate change." He says the climate bill will bring about global governance which is truly what this is all about anyway. It certainly is not about protecting anything, much less the environment.:mad::mad::mad:

Hi Guys. First off. Its all about Power. Who's got it , who doesn't.
The folks in power happen to be quite liberal and fringe in some of their beliefs.
They are going to attempt to move the country towards their progressive agenda.
Its up to everyone who disagrees to do their best to fight it.
This is not about helping 'the little people or the common folk'.
Its about changing our country into a Social Democracy.
Share the wealth Baby!
Business is the bad guy and only exists for the good of the masses.
Sound Familiar?
Hello Chairman Moa, I mean Obama.
The good news is, Hello, its been tried before and miserably failed. It's a bad B movie.
We need to vote the nuts out of office and soon.

Attachment 5047


There is nothing else to say.

Now that was funny.

Jeep's favorite from his home state of Kalifornia.....

Attachment 5048

Truk: That favorite picture of Jeeps - I printed a copy of it and stuck it in the garden, the squirrels ran off and the bugs threw up.

Is that my tax dollars clipped on her shoulder or are they yours?

Damn she's ugly.

Sawdust could help her if she could do the pose he caught Obama in.

Gary De: Right on. But were is the rebuttal? Once upon a time before the media became absolute liberals there was a show Point/ Counterpoint. It wasn't the all to end all, but it was something. Now we just hear one side and it is all good. Crap. Throw the Bums out. and Keep them out.

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Originally Posted by garyde

Hi Guys. First off. Its all about Power. Who's got it , who doesn't.
The folks in power happen to be quite liberal and fringe in some of their beliefs.
They are going to attempt to move the country towards their progressive agenda.
Its up to everyone who disagrees to do their best to fight it.
This is not about helping 'the little people or the common folk'.
Its about changing our country into a Social Democracy.
Share the wealth Baby!
Business is the bad guy and only exists for the good of the masses.
Sound Familiar?
Hello Chairman Moa, I mean Obama.
The good news is, Hello, its been tried before and miserably failed. It's a bad B movie.
We need to vote the nuts out of office and soon.

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Someone who "gets it!" God help us all if we can't summon collective intestinal fortitude to stand up to these socialists and take our country back! :eek:

Gary D, you are absolutely correct. This is all about power. Share the wealth and get votes. Once you have the votes feeding at the trough, perpetual power. A grand social experiment that has never worked because no one is incentivized to work any longer.

Roger, not only is the mainstream media not objective, they are cheerleaders! It is ridiculous and very dangerous.

I think she was your high school prom date Krakboy!

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Originally Posted by truk4u

Jeep's favorite from his home state of Kalifornia.....

Attachment 5048

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You should have seen her before she went under the knife....a banana nose and more Chins than the Hong Kong phone book. :D

Concerning all of the Closings of Auto Dealers around the country, has anyone else heard the rumor they all supported the Republican Party, or is that just gossip? :confused: I don't know I am just saying ? !!!

For a different perspective on all that is going on in our country try going to http://www.worldnetdaily.com/


Gary S.

A quote from Samuel Adams. Those who prefer tranquility of servitude had best be prepared to crouch down and lick the hand which feeds you.

Ben Franklin said "Those willing to sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

If we fail to speak up and speak out against this madness then we should be prepared to accept everything we get (Glenn Beck)

A quote from yours truly. It is gonna have to get a lot worse before it gets better. I am afraid anything short of a complete system failure will allow the bureaucrats to continue to kick the can down the road. Because of this notion I hope the current administration gets that second term.:eek:

Many of you have struck a cord with your thoughts on the next automobile you'll buy and I believe there are millions of folks out there who feel the same.

It is our responsibility as patriots to all be putting a FORD in the drive the next time around. Dodge and Chevy need to go the way of the dinosaurs.

If I had investment cash I would be buying into Ford they are going to be big.

If we agree with Gordon that Kalifornia is to be the model, then I suggest we lobby for a federal law that allows those opposed to the viewpoints of those in power to leave the state, but forbid the liberals and tree huggers from leaving. Let them live in the environment they would like the rest of us to live in. When the whole thing collapses under its own weight deny them federal funds to clean up the mess they created.

Most car dealers are Conservatives, so most are republicans. I do not know of any dealer who was cut that was a democrat! I think I could gurantee that none who were cut were big Obama supporters.

I agree with Rick that most of the dealers who where cut had pissed off the factories at one time or another. I know of several dealers who should have been cut in this area if the goal was to eliminate over dealering like they claimed. Not one was cut that should have been. Several 5-star dealers (the top quality dealers) were cut though. I am sure that if I were still a dealer, I would have been cut as I used to be on the Dealer Councils and advertising boards for all franchises I had, and as a result had a number of testy sessions (keeping it nice) with them.

I personally feel that Chrysler is toast and will be gone or broken up and Jeep sold off within 18 to 24 months. Unfortunately, I do not think GM can survive long term because of the sentiment of most Americans, which has been expressed a number of times in this thread. The difference is that Chrysler will be allowed to fail, but the government will rescue GM again. Next time, they may put Ford and GM into one company. I have seen several analyst that expect by 2015 there will be only one or possibly two domestic auto makers left. It will be Ford and GM or Ford/GM combined, I think.

Even used car dealers are suffering with this economy! Several of my friends who are used car dealers have closed up in the past few months. I hope Obama does not completely wreck the entire US economy.

If we really think about this there are a lot of things that can change the landscape. Lamar Alexander our TN senator is pushing a bill that will distribute 100% of the GM shares that are owned by the government to those who file and pay taxes next April 15th. That would create a huge incentive for citizens to support GM, would get the government off the board and change the attitude that prevails about buying from GM. I personally think its current vehicles are as good as any, so I don't want to see it fail for the wrong reasons.

Chrysler has an uphill battle because its quality has lagged and I really do not see a lot of its product line getting people in the front door.I don't know if Fiat will change that either because they have never designed product for this market anyway. Ed probably has called this one right.

What will not change no matter what is the number of cars produced here, so despite all the blathering about letting GM fail it means nothing but the loss of UAW jobs. The other companies selling in this market already produce some of their products here and if all three of the US manufacturers failed we would just have more factories with foreign names over the door turning out cars for this market., none of which would be UAW workers.

I may stand alone on this, but the failure of businesses, regardless of size is part of the cycle of business and I don't think the government should stick its nose where it doesn't belong. Pave our roads and protect our shores is all I want the government to do. Everything else the private sector should handle.

But Jon, who wants stock in a company where Ron Gettlefinger is sitting on the board?

And then there is:

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Originally Posted by edsaylor

Even used car dealers are suffering with this economy!

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Not so fast Ed, I know a used car dealer in east Tennessee that just bought a newer bus! :)

Boy you guys don't want to get me going on this thread! Havent been on this board since we got our 03 Prevost, came back to see what is happening.

As for cars, I own between 13-15 at any given moment, and my tastes run the gamut. No comparison on the Hemi's, et al, of old and new cars. Your basic late model Honda or Chevy is faster than most old muscle cars, and it would kill then on a road course. As for the Mercedes, I sadly have had one, nice car, lots of power, but you are right, a real POS! Fantastically overrated!

Being Canadian (I left that socialist left wing mecca in 1992 with $300 and a 20 year old car with no AC, and not another possession!) I have sad observations about what is happening here now. I never thought I'd live to see the day when the Canadian PM was to the right of the President. And sadly, there is no "conservative" movement in Canada, since as a socialist country the best a party can do is to claim they can run the socialist system better than the lefties.

Canadian health care, is, well, scary. Fact is most of the population doesn't need it, because they are healthy, but heaven help you if you are elderly and need care. By that time, your voting power is diminished due to demographics, and the lousy health care is just "the way it is" Funny thing about most Canadians is that they love their system, they just think it hasn't been run right. Most falsely believe that Americans routinely go bankrupt after a hospital visit, and that many simply die because they can't get treated at the hospital. "Better to wait and get care than die on the street in front of the hospital" is what they say. But wait they will. Long waits for even the most routine things are common. Many of these routine things are life altering or life threatening, but no matter, you will still wait. Simply stated, many die that might have done better with fast, aggressive treatment. And rich Canadians have it no better, for it is ILLEGAL for a doctor to provide care for money outside the system. After all, no one should be able to get at the front of the line due to money. Good for them that they can come here ( a staggering number come here for their health care), but that soon will change also.

I feel like the country I knew is now gone... and is was the only place on earth like it!

As for Republican car dealers, yes I heard that all but 2 of the dealers that were closed were Republican contributors. Sad day indeed.

As for GM and Chrysler, I'd say they are finished, but I hope I am wrong. I can't ever recall a government owned business (or any other entity for that matter) that can run better and be more effective that a private sector business or entity. And turning these entities over to the very union that bankrupted them is, well, poorly consider in my estimation. Apparently Obama and his cronies are smarter than everyone else in every area of the economy and government. And they used the word "hubris" when talking about Bush!!

I am considering going to DC on 9-12 for a tax protest rally (in my Bus) maybe some on this board should do the same thing!

Thanks for letting me rant!

Say there Bob, Welcome to the war!!

Bob,

Pretty good rant, eh? Lots of truth to those words....

I have been fishing the past few years at a lodge up in Saskatchewan. The Canadian owner developed cancer 2 years ago and immediately relocated to the US for treatment.

The Republican/Car Dealer closing I believe is just a coincidence since most dealers I know are republican. The GM deal will be interesting to watch as GM is being (as well as Chrysler) "convinced" to produce and sell vehicles which are sale-proof. There is no doubt in my mind that eventually they will be back at the trough again for more money and I think that by then the public will have had enough. Now that the UAW owns a chunk of GM and sits on both sides of the table the next contract negotiation is going to be interesting. Gettlefinger won't know what hat to wear. I originally thought that a "pre-packaged" bankruptcy would be the way to go as it would have given both GM and Chrysler the opportunity to shed the extreme legacy costs and renegotiate the contracts that keep the domestic manufacturers on their back. Never did I think that the only ones who would emerge whole and not give up too much would be the UAW. The bond holders lost out and the Supreme Court upheld it. Ford on the other hand started the corporate restructure a few years before everyone else by shedding off Jaguar, Range Rover and Aston Martin. Mulally has done a great job however, Ford does not have the luxury of having had its balance sheet cleaned up from a bankruptcy, but at least they don't have the Car Czars running the store.

Yes Us California Citizens are in a real pickle, several pickles as a matter of fact. We have three terrible Congress ladies out of the 354 law makers in congress. They are not doing all of the damage being done to our country. Look in your own back yards at what you are sending for law makers. I'm presently holding my breath our governor continues his hold out on signing the budget being presented to him by the Democratic Legislature.. He told them " We are broke." As citizens of this great state we have the most to lose by being forced out of state by taxes and destructive regulations. Best year round climate, Jobs, income, standard of living, beaches, mountains, forests, deserts, lakes and all year recreatiobn.
So pick on Kalifornia if it makes you feel good, but we will survive and come back better for for having gone through the tough of it.

Hey Harry good to hear from ya.:D Are you going to OK?

Harry, I think you are wrong. I have seen a parallel with NY state and what has happened is the welfare constituency has become the dominant political force, and the politicians now pander to that voting bloc. As a result legislation and budgets leave the income producers no other option than to bail out.

Businesses are leaving, high wage earners are leaving, real estate values are plummeting because far more people (who earn their way in life) are leaving than are coming into the state.

The decline is happening at a faster rate now and the state is creating even more ways to take money from its residents. I don't know when it will reach the tipping point, but it is getting close.

You have a beautiful state, but it is all about numbers, and as those on the receiving end of your money outnumber you the end is near.

There is a tremendous amount of support of a Bill that is moving through the House which may give back the terminated dealers their rights if not their franchises. Its called the "Automotive Dealer Economic Rights Restoration Act". Its picking up alot of momentum and it has accumulated over 220 co-sponsors. My understanding is that it would restore their agreements prior to their arbitrary termination. Unfortunately for some dealers its too late. But it shows the power of Grass Root involvement and Lobbying and knowing your Representatives. It would be Huge victory for those dealers who are looking at bankruptcy as an option because they didn't make the "stay" list.