Quote:
Originally Posted by CFleck
OTR is very expensive. It costs well into six figures, but if you buy it, they throw a bus in with the deal. Usually the bus is a Liberty so it makes it a good deal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFleck
OTR is very expensive. It costs well into six figures, but if you buy it, they throw a bus in with the deal. Usually the bus is a Liberty so it makes it a good deal.
Charlie,
I have traveled that road more than a few times - have a field office in St Marys. Will look you up next time I am in your neck of the woods.
Sure does have OTR Charlie, just look at all the windows. :D With just a little work you can bring this baby back to all it's previous grandeur:rolleyes:
Sorry, Skiffer, but I gotta post this.
This strikes me as a huge opportunity for someone willing to move fast and pull the trigger to get a bus dirt cheap.
http://www.philcooper.com/details.php?v_id=419
I realize "cheap" is a lousy reason to buy a bus, but unless this has been trashed, this coach may be a great opportunity for someone that has been looking and is in a position to buy without hesitation. Someobody will buy it.
I would not buy it without seeing it in person. I would not buy it without adding the following costs to the purchase price (mentally) before putting an offer on the table.
Tires, air bags, Norgren Valves, chassis batteries, house batteries, and brake chambers. That's around $12,000 not including installation costs. Installation of all the above would likely run around 24 man hours.
When looking at it in person I would run every device and system to determine if there are any other problems not shown and I would ask Prevost if there is any service history or damage history. I would look it over with an eagle eye to see if it ever had repairs.
$140,000? $130,000, or less? If it is to be a keeper and is in excellent condition $175,000 is still reasonable.
Geez - now they're practically giving them away! It does look like this will be an outstanding opportunity for someone to get into a nice Prevost conversion at a "plastic" price. No matter - mine is still worth a million - to me! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg
I don't know Jon.
When I look at it, I see a bus that has been neglected and would need a lot of... well you know, $$-LEWS! to bring it back.
If a new guy without a set of wrenches is looking for a bus and see your post and buys it, he might be in for a disappointment.
I have based this reply on the miles for the year and the water damage by the dinette. I only looked a three photos and that was enough.
ps... If I were wanting to upgrade now, I would look at it more. For members that don't know me, I love to work on a Prevost.
No doubt it needs a deep cleaning, and note I urged a potential buyer to go look at it.
If you add in the price of purchases such as tires and batteries and the labor to install all the new parts to the offer price I still think it represents a good price.
The cosmetic stuff could add up to some dollars which is why a look see is important. That is a Liberty Classic so it is not apt to have any problems a person with reasonable skills cannot handle.
Jon your suggested possible purchase prices could be inflated:eek:
Just how bad does that bank want to get rid of it and how many other bad loans do they have?
If I were looking at it with cash I would start with a way lower offer and creep my way up to make sure.
I do not think that I am alone when I say I personally know of many more unbelievable prices on current listings but hesitate to share them out of courtesy for those who are currently selling.
What will this winter and next year bring?
Joe - I agree! If I were in the market with cash, I would open with about $110,000 and work from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cannarozzi
::::shudder:::: Given how fast our new President is making inroads with his socialist/apologist agenda, I'm frankly too scared to think about that now! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cannarozzi
I will not profess any skills in the buying process and it is because of that I cannot stand to do the dance with dealers. The minute I ask for their best price, and then after giving it to me they come down further I'm done. I consider I am dealing with liars and cheats and I have to walk away.
It cuts the other way also. I try to make an honest good faith offer. If it isn't good enough I also take a hike because it usually represents what I think is a good deal for us both and if I have to add money to that offer I think I am spending too much.
With respect to low balling the seller that OK if you want to play a game, but while you are doing that if someone like me comes along and makes a serious offer your low ball offer may just be softening the seller up, making my serious offer attractive. You lose, I win.
My only point here is this appears to have the potential to make someone a good coach for relatively little money. What price is finally settled upon is up to the buyer and seller. Whatever it is, it is certain to further decay the selling prices in the market.
I am a long time "lurker," and called to check out this bus. It was owned by a party that was on the "drag racing" circuit who ran out of money. This explains the condition of the coach.
They have a pending sale at present, and Tom said that the bank wanted at least $125K, which is likely where the price is. Tom also stated, as John pointed out, that the coach would need between $20K and $25K to make it look as "good as new."
Tim
Jim I love the Mohawk hair cut on that bus.
GregM
Welcome to the asylum, Tim! Now that you've dipped your toe in the water, go ahead and wade all the way in! Tell us about yourself - where you hail from, bus ownership status and/or what you're shopping for in a bus, sheepherding experience, felony convictions (unprosecuted charges don't count), and anything else that will give us ammunition to make fun of you with! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Dooley
In all seriousness, if you've been lurking for a while, you already know that this group of bus nuts has a collectively warped sense of humor and can be unmerciful with ribbing each other, but a better and more knowledgable bunch of bus people you will never find - and generous to a fault!
Participate as much as you can to get the full benefit of being a POG'er and above all - have fun!
Didn't the Kingston Trio sing : " Hang down your head Tim Dooley, hang down your head and cry"?
Or was that someone else?
It was someone else,:rolleyes: like Tom!
JIM
That bus has been on Cooper's site for quite a while now. I have been surprised it has hung around as long as it has, given how hard they have been pushing it.
I am a divorced father of two, a son (11), and daughter (9), and we live in Palo Alto, California. I own my own Franchise Consulting business, assisting people purchase the right business for themselves.
I caught MPD upon leaving Yellowstone after our second straight summer of tent camping for two weeks. We love the park, but I lost ten pounds (not an entirely bad thing) hefting gear from the car to camp site to make every meal (due to concerns with the bears, you must leave all food, utensils, stoves etc in the car).
As we were leaving the park, I found myself trailing what appeared to be a new, and beautiful Millennium bus. I had no idea what it was, but I knew then that this was the way to travel.
When I was growing up, one of ten, my parents were avid campers, and ultimately bought a Terry trailer. We went somewhere every other weekend. So, I am rather addicted to touring the country.
Once I got home, I started my research, and found the POG site. I think I know you all very well at this point after having read almost every post here.
I came very close to purchasing Bruce's 0533 back in September/October '08 (hello Bruce). What a great coach, and as you all know, he continues to improve upon a very good thing. However, it was at that time that the market crashed, and along with it my portfolio. So, I have had to put the dream to rest for the moment.
However, I still look for a great opportunity. I tend to like the interior styling/decor of Millenniums, Marathons, and the occasional Country Coach. I look for the following in a coach, purely from an practical living point of view (with two young kids, and possibly a couple of buddies);
• I need at least one pull out sofa, and could probably add another opposite the original as I realize that most coaches do not come with two.
• Also, with regard to kid sleeping accommodations, I do like the "basement" sleeping compartment, but do realize this is rare.
• I like the "booth" arrangement for dining, versus the table w/two chairs.
• I tend to gravitate to the warmer interiors, not the cream or white (as
again, I have two kids, and we all know what that means).
• I need a private toilet, as this will allow unhindered travel from front to back of the coach (again, kids need their privacy...as well as adults).
Jon, I realize that I haven't touched on any technical differences between the converters, but will certainly consider this if and when I find something that gets my attention. In addition, I don't want to start world war three between all of the current coach owning members of POG.
I don't have any "sheepherding" experience, and don't own a plane, but do own a 30 foot Grady White fishing boat. My son is addicted to fishing. We fish in SF Bay, and I love going offshore for albacore tuna, and love to view all of the sea life (whales, dolphins, and the occasional Great White sharks at the Farralon Islands).
I just went out over the 4th of July weekend solo, spent the night 80 miles offshore, caught 14 tuna, saw a pod of 50 dolphins, and also saw a whale fully launch itself straight up and out of the water. It was incredible.
As for the sad "Dooley" song, with the last child in our family of ten, we pleaded with my mom to name the last one "Tom." She agreed, but we had to promise we would never sing the song. To this day, I still don't know all of the words to that song!
Sorry for the long message, but I truly enjoy those of you who regularly post here. It is truly an incredible group, with tremendous knowledge of these magnificent machines.
Tim
Great post, Tim! Thanks for sharing your story! The info you've shared will, no doubt, enable the collective brain trust here to help you find the right bus to fit your desires and needs.
Welcome to the "family" and happy hunting for your very own Prevost!
Enjoyable post Tim, welcome to P O G!!!!
:)JIM
Welcome aboard Tim. Despite what you say I will start the war.......
The newer the coach, the more you need a strong reliable converter who will stand behind it and respond to your every question. Older coaches, even orphans without converters are readily serviced because they tend to be less complex (meaning proprietary circuit boards and computer software) and parts are generally available off the shelf from supply houses.
Some late model coaches are also easily serviced, such as the Royale because those conversions had simple systems.
The two names you will see most recommended are Marathon and Liberty. They are the two converters who have been around forever and who both make excellent coaches. They both have outstanding reputations for support.
But there are also other conversions, such as Millennium, Vantare, and Parliament whio are still doing conversions, who make great coaches, and who support their coaches very well.
This is literally a small community and as such a converter will quickly get bad marks if an owner is mistreated. I think you just need to continue with your list of wants and needs and as you refine the list the coach you want will emerge. I would strongly recommend you contact Steve Bennett from California Coach. Steve is very knowledgible and can give you straight information on the direction you should be heading.
We can offer opinions here, based on our personal experiences. What you have to do is sort through what we say to determine what is really important to you. That will be based on how you plan to use the coach, something that will have a greater impact on your decision than anything.
For those waiting for the bomb, here it is. Tim, stop wasting time looking. Just go get a Liberty with OTR. You will never regret the decision.
Tim,
It looks like you have one of life's most unenjoyable trials (literally) behind you now and one of life's MOST enjoyable trials (figuratively) ahead of you...selecting a bus.
Just remember, for as many members there are as many opinions. I think when you see THE BUS, you will know. Deciding to step into a Prevost conversion is the big one. Which converter, which accessories you should have, is like adding spices, only you can decide what you like.
I have never heard anyone on POG say anything like "I bought the wrong bus"
Best of luck searching.
Welcome Tim
I agree with Jon: Get a LIBERTY with OTR, transmission retarder, cruise airs (instead of roof airs), and a single holding tank!!! They can not be beat!
Hi Tim,
Searching for the "perfect" bus is quite an experience, which I'm sure you will enjoy.
Once you're done "looking", take the advice of Jon and Ed.....
and buy a Liberty conversion with OTR REAL BUS AIR, single holding tank, and transmission retarder.
You will be quite the happy camper :D
Tim, X 4 what Jon, Ed, and Paul said. ;) JIM
*
Thank you all for your warm welcome, as well as suggestions.
I am beginning to wonder if only the Liberty men are reading this thread!
As for Liberty's, I love the external paint jobs, but the interiors are a bit formal for me. I will keep looking at them though, perhaps I will find one to my liking.
However, it sounds like what you guys really love about your Liberty's is what is under the skin. I will pay more attention to this......
Thanks again.
Tim
Those guys are just lurking and us Liberty guys are on high alert for the aerial attack. I believe they are down at the Acme store stocking up.
There is no perfect coach. Around a campfire we could all have a lively debate about the merits of each converter, and about each converter's Achilles heel. No converter owns the prize for poor interior design, nor does any converter own the award for best interior design. Ours is "elaborate" to use polite wording, and it certainly is not going to reflect how we would have designed it, but we have come to really like it because it is completely different from us and how we live. But I can say the same about the products from every converter. We do place the interior a ways down on the list of things that are important.
For us, our priorities are crystal clear. We must have OTR, a private toilet and long range tanks. We have other wants, but the three listed are needs.
We also can bore you to tears with what we like about the coach, but so can other owners of other coaches. My point is these are personal choices, ours being devloped from almost 20 years of Prevost ownership based on how we use our coach.
You will find however both Liberty and Marathon owners tend to be very loyal (with good reason) and will recommend them to others. Just go buy a Liberty and get it over with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooley
No, we're reading. We just know better.:p Hang in there. You'll catch on. In the mean time, hide your wallet, chain your dog, cage the cat and tell loved one's not to answer the door. Oh yeah, get another phone line and for God's sake don't give out the number and change your email to an aol account.:eek: But, if you do nothing else, head this. If you see a Liberty, don't make eye contact with the owner, especially if they are known to be a member of POG.
Tim,
I will start the retaliation. Don't let the Liberty owners mislead you. They have over paid for their rolling bordellos and so to justify their over spending they condemn other converters. All converters start with the same platform, a Prevost, and then convert them. They all talk about their Prevost Over Road Air but my Country Coach OTR puts out 38 to 40 degree air and keeps the coach very cold. If you ask my wife it is too efficient.
I like my roof air over other systems. I don't have to worry about them not functioning because the blacktop underneath the bus is too hot. They are not as sophisticated as others but they are less money to maintain and they function in extremely hot weather when you need AC.
I paid a $100,000 less for my 99 CC than the comparable 99 Liberty I was looking at.
Liberty makes a very nice coach but they do not have a monopoly on nice coaches. There are several good converters out there and several good converters that are no longer in business or having financial difficulties. But their buses are very good.
Many Liberty owners will condemn Country Coach service. They don't own a CC so have no idea about service on a CC. I am 2,000 miles from Junction City so their factory service is of little concern to me. As long as I get a returned phone call from the service techs that is enough for me. I am going to fix the problem myself or take it to a service center that will to it for me.
Well Tim, I think you get my drift. There is a coach for everyone and a lot of very good coaches out there. What ever you decide on use this POG site for help. There are experts here on every conversion out there and every one is willing to help you with any problems you may experience.
Got home this evening from AR in my new Marathon with OTR. Liberty doesn't have that market cornered!:D Made for nice sledding in the 106 deg heat of central TX.
Most guys on here are lucky I don't have their phone number. The ones that do, get calls from me on the road telling them how much fun I am having. I am sure that will blow over some day - maybe not.:cool:
After looking and looking, I believe as Jon has said many times you will know which bus is for you when you see it. There are owners of multiple converters here and as you have read, no one is bad mouthing their own bus. That tells me decide what systems and layout you need, stick to the list and the right bus will jump out at you irrespective of the converter. Stuff like sofas and chairs can be easily made or altered.
Good luck!
Hello Tim,
Like Ed said: "...We're here.We just know better.:p.."
There are many conversions with factory Prevost OTR and quality craftsmanship. If you ask more questions you will learn that some of us switched Marathons for Country Coaches, and then for Libertys, or went from Libertys to Royales, etc etc.
Another thing, my neighbor, Joe C. said something which I like very much that everybody should take under consideration: " Thanks to POG there is no Orphan Prevost Conversion ". Don't miss a good one !
I said this long time ago: soo many Prevost soo little time. :)
Alek
Case in point. We just had our very own Jack14R show Mr. Liberty and the gang how to get the autostart voltages right on Libertys watchdog system.
He should get some type of an award for that.
Do we have it covered or what.
Tim whilst everyone spouts and pontificates about their otr and ability to ship butchered meat cross country with out spoiling we have a lurker out there.
I am unaware of any liberty out there that comes close to his total cooling BTU
The bus is a 98 Vantare H with OTR a/c + large central a/c basement unit for the house AND 2 criusairs one in the front room and one in back.
I just got off the phone with Alek he has a pair of these things in his H Royal one cools the left side one for the right good design either or both. They are hands down THE quitest a/c units out there and you never catch a breeze like off the cruseair or roof air.
If I were starting from scratch this would be 1 piece. Can you fit those things in the basement of an XL?
Hi Tim. I'm glad you decided to jump into the POG pool. I used to live in San Jose and Mountain View while attending San Jose State back in the early 70's. Man has the area changed since then.
I found a Coach for you. http://www.rvonline.com/single-ad.as...SearchMethod=1
It has an additional sleep area and it's definately a nice Liberty.
Joe,
While I canot disagree with the use of a package heating and cooling unit in the bay as some conversions use, there is a disconnect with what owners are professing.
The single loudest argument against OTR is the presumed loss of bay space. Maybe that is the owner's repeating the blather told them by the salesmen, but it is repeated often.
The reality is that OTR takes up the equivalent of 1/2 bay. It is in the third bay position and the remaining 1/2 of the bay space is actually the fuel tank. So when a packaged system is installed it is usually in pairs. The combination of Cruise Airs and a single package unit is not common. A pair of packaged AC units takes up......A HALF BAY.
As to the capacities, the conversions I have seen with the packaged units use 26,000 BTU size, two being a total of 52,000 BTU, which coincidently is the same as my four cruise airs at 13,000 each, or one package and two cruise airs. They all fall short of the 80,000 BTU+ capacity of OTR.
If space is truly a consideration then a coach with four roof airs addresses that concern.
Jon,
Our H3-45 Royale has OTR + 2x26,000 BTU's AC/Heat units in the basement,
Alek
Alec,
That is what I have typically seen when packages are used. For house AC it appears the norm for a 45 foot coach is 52,000 BTU of cooling. It is either the package, the four Cruise Airs or four roof units.
Some converters only use three units on a 45, and entertainer coaches often have at least 5 roof airs.
Thanks Gary, that is truly a very nice coach. However, I will have to wait another four to five years to afford it!
You Liberty boy's have opened my eyes to another viable option. I appreciate it.
Please keep the comments coming. It is a very entertaining thread, for me at least.
Tim
All the Marathons I looked at had 3 cruisair units are they 13 or 15000btu if they only use 3?
Joe,
This is only my opinion based on an experience we had. Two 13,000 BTU Cruise Airs will not keep bus temperatures below 85 when the OAT is 96 to 98 degrees. When the interior temps were in excess of 85, even though the OAT had dropped to 94, after 3 hours of running all four Cruise airs (total of 52,000 BTU) we had just gotten interior temps down to 78-79.
If the bus interior temps are maintained at a comfortable temp (for us it is around 72) then three might be able to do the job, but as we found out if they are warm to start with four units are barely adequate. There was just too much mass of heated interior to cool down.
I recognize that what is an acceptable and comfortable temperature for some does not work for us. Also, our 40 footer had three and apparently the shorter length only required three, but our 45 in our opinion definitely calls for 4.
Point of information:
Our Marathon H3 has 4 cruise airs (plus OTR), so not all Marathons are limited to 3.
mm