One exception to those 3 ways Joe, at a border crossing. They can come in and search w/o asking , and w/o a warrent or a crime. Just because they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cannarozzi
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One exception to those 3 ways Joe, at a border crossing. They can come in and search w/o asking , and w/o a warrent or a crime. Just because they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cannarozzi
Tuga,
Only once did I feel more secure carrying my gun.
In an area that I was not familiar with, I pulled my car into a bank drive thru ATM lane. There was one car ahead of me. A moment or two later, a crappy looking car pulled in behind me.
To my right, immediately adjacent to the ATM lane, was a shallow drainage swale, a couple of sparse trees and then another parking lot, mostly abandoned.
About this time a car, driven by someone looking like a gang member, pulled into the empty parking lot and backed up to the edge of the pavement adjacent to the ATM lane. So, I'm thinking, what possible reason could this guy have to park HERE. There is nothing in the parking lot where he is, yet he is positioned for a quick departure.
And I'm blocked in the ATM lane. A perfect target.
As this unfolds and these thoughts are running through my mind, for the first (and so far only) time in my life my instincts told me reach under my shirt and place my hand on my gun, while keeping an eye on the movements of the suspicous guy and the crappy car that had pulled in behind me. Could he have been part of this? Who knows.
BUT.... nothing came of this situation. Gangster guy on my right stayed in position for a minute or so then left. The car ahead of me transacted his business and left. I released my grip on my gun and everything went as planned.
So, long story short..... I did not need my gun that day, but I'm sure glad I had it. It also taught me just how quickly events can unfold that may put you in a bad situation.
That's a good story Paul. I'm glad you discussed it in detail because I was planning to keep the pistol unloaded in the safe of the MH. But as I read your post, I might be better served by keeping it loaded and close by.
Did you keep it in a holster inside your shirt?
I guess we should stay away from the edge of the road as you pass by at ORA. WOW!!!
You guys are all on the right page, if you are not already a shooter, get edu-ma-cated, make in intelligent choice of hardware, and remain armed.
Harry hit it too, join the NRA and support them.
A friend of mine back in the seventies, was on 395N between Ridgecrest and 14 (desert middle of nothing) running late at night. He was driving a pick up and towing a small travel trailer. He was in his sixties and accompanied by his wife
He came upon a roadblock and slowed down as he had no choice, as he got closer the cars/bikes blocking the road were not Police type vehicles. He reached under the seat and pulled out his trusty S/W model 19 .357 Magnum and had it in his lap.
Bikenasty dude comes to his window and tells them both to get out of the truck, whilst brandishing a knife and smiling.
He cocks the pistol and puts it in the bikeboy's face and tells him what a nice knife that is, and has him drop it.
He then collected ID from all indigenous recalcitrants involved and tells them that they can pick them up at the Sheriff's Office in Lone Pine.
Not a shot fired, but you can bet if he hadn't been armed they would have both likely been killed.
We do need to start protecting our 2nd amendment rights with vigor. I don't think you need to be a supreme court judge to understand what it says, and what it means.
It was not by chance that it is the 2nd amendment only proceeded by the freedom of speech.
For sure it is there because it occupies its correct spot relative to its importance.
This one will make some want to cry.
When my nephews father passed away he inherited all his fathers weapons. He had them safely stored in a safe at home. Many were antiques.
He lives on the other side of the tracks, in Chicago and all residents are banned from having guns and that was illegal.
During a domestic dispute (with his now ex-wife) his piece of %#@$ mother-in law informed the police he had a safe full of firearms, locked in the back room probably not opened in weeks. Even though none were ever a part of the dispute in any way the police took them all and they ended up being melted down.
Their value, priceless. No different than asking my wife to surrender her mothers wedding ring never to be returned.
Joe,
That is a sad story indeed. It's a very clear example of what can happen when government intrudes on individual lives and tramples on our constitutional rights.
Very similar to the unlawful confiscation of firearms in New Orleans following katrina..... which resulted in a successful lawsuit initiated by the NRA to insure that such a confiscation of legally-owned firearms will never occur again.
But that doesn't help the thousands of individuals that lost their guns during this fiasco.
Warren/ Tuga
Congrats Tuga, you are a Great American.
Warren: Thanks for the story of your friend being held up by dummies bringing a knife to a gun fight. That was great ending to a very serious situation.
I doubt the outcome would have been the same if he was carrying a rock.
I love the feel of cold hard steel with a trigger on it.
I appreciate all the comments but my gun is loaded and if it was not, well I had just soon have a rock.
For anyone interested in CCW, here's another web site that is loaded with information: http://www.usconcealedcarry.com/public/main.cfm
Warren/ Tuga
Congrats Tuga, you are a Great American.
Warren: Thanks for the story of your friend being held up by dummies bringing a knife to a gun fight. That was great ending to a very serious situation.
I doubt the outcome would have been the same if he was carrying a rock.
I love the feel of cold hard steel with a trigger on it.
I appreciate all the comments but my gun is loaded and if it was not, well I had just soon have a rock.
Has anyone else noticed the lack of ammunition available on the shelves?
Lots of 22 long rifle and 12 gauge with bird shot loads...but the rest of it..gone!
Yep, I've noticed.
Luckily, I have some ammo in reserve....
Sporting goods stores and WalMarts are all short of pistol ammo. Available from several online sources including:
http://gunbroker.com/
http://www.northwestshootersupply.com/
http://www.rrarms.com/
There is a seller on Gunbroker.com in Stillwater, OK that has the best prices currently on several calibers of pistol ammo. Search for Ammunitioncenter as a seller.
Went to Walmart yesterday and confirm they had nothing. Went on to Gander Mountain and was not able to get buck shot for the .410 Judge nor for the 12g Rem 870 pump. :(
Was able though to get a few boxes ea of 45 colt, 44 mag, and 38 S&W spec.
Got raped on the price, 44s were $39.00/box:eek:
Here's something good to read Tuga, it goes along with what Jeff Bayley said, and what I believe.
http://www.maritimesecurity.com/gunsonboard.htm
JIM
So I guess the question remains, where did it all go??
Remington and Winchester putting serial numbers on them now or in the process of re-tooling to do so??? Just a thought...
Had he been un-armed, I think the worst feeling would have been realizing as it was going down, that you had failed in your duty to protect your family (wife).
Keep up the good work Roger!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfoster
I took the time to read that entire article Jim referenced. Good stuff, thanks.
I'm ready to buy two 12 gauge shotguns. One for the bus and one for the house. I like to buy everything used and I'm a Craig's List freak but I don't think they allow people to sell guns there. But prostitution remains alive and well there...(you know......I mean I've heard).
I found a Gun Show directory that shows where all the gun shows are in the country and suppose this would be decent place to shop. I don't even know how much I'll need to spend for a good one but I'm open to suggestions. Obviously I should look for one with a shorter barrel for the bus. I don't know what the legal limit for shortness is but I recall the article Jim posted the link to, they suggested 18" for marine use.
Hey, if we pull the windshield rally off, the old windshields would make fun target practice but the Texas store is probably the only one that wouldn't call the police on us.
Jeff, take a look at www.gunbroker.com to get an idea of what is available and what a realistic price would be. Dealers are required to do a background check at the time of sale - at the shows here in Ohio we can buy or sell among private individuals with just a check of a valid ID (ie driver license no background check) to see if the purchaser is from Ohio. Maybe it's the same at the shows in Florida or other states.
Looks like ammo would have been quite a good investment.
What little 9mm ammunition one of the local gun shops had on hand (a whopping 4 boxes of Winchester FMJ) was priced at $22.00/box of 50.
And you can forget about .380 auto.
I'm hoping to make a few bucks at the next gun show...:D
What do you guys think of a 22 cal pistol? That is what I purchased because it was easy to target practice with and the ammo was inexpensive. I think 50 rounds cost $1.95 at WalMart. Another advantage is if the pistol is confiscated by law enforcement I'm only out about $300:)
A friend recommended keeping a 10 round clip filled with "stinger" bullets. And just use the regular 22 bullets for target practice. Another advantage is that Louise will feel more comfortable firing a low caliber gun as opposed to a 44 MAGNUM! I want her to feel comfortable and at ease.
I would like to hear your opinions.
Tuga,
A 22 can be fun to plink around with, and surely is cheap to shoot, but I would not depend on it to save my life.
At a minimum, a personal defense hand gun needs to be a .38 calibre.
There are several high quality guns chambered for .38 special or .380 auto.
Perhaps you should visit a range where you can try out several guns. Try a revolver vs an auto and see which feels more accurate to you. Try different calibres and see how they feel.
Tuga,
I'm with Paul. You shoot someone with a 22 and they get pissed off and come whip your a$$. Not good.
To best answer your question, look at the history of law enforcement weapons. Many years ago the 38 was the choice of most police departments. Then came the 38 special which evolved into the 357 magnum. Then the semi automatics came on to the scene and and the 9mm was the most popular.
After many shootouts in which the good guys were carrying the 9mm and the bad guys were not stopped immediately, there was a movement to go to a more powerful cartridge. The FBI did extensive research and decided that the 40S&W was the round to use. That is now one of the most popular rounds used by law enforcement. During all this time thought, many of the elite forces were carrying the infallible 45 which was the major US military sidearm for many years. This was a single action pistol. There now is a multitude of double action gun available in all calibers and this style is the most popular for the average person who does not do a lot of shooting.
If the 22 were a real good bad guy stopper then most law enforcement agencies would use it just from the cost factor. But they don't. The 22 is not adequate in a gun fight. You never take a knife to a gun fight and the 22 is one step above a knife!
My favorite is the 1911 45.
Jim C. made mention of this hand gun several days ago. If I were a new shooter looking for a firearm to carry in my bus, The Judge would be at the top of my list.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=125661370
http://www.holsters-and-more.com/ima...urus_judge.jpg
Tuga, you need bullet mass to get the job done. Knock down power.
22 not good for self defense!
If you want a hand gun, I recommend the taurus in the following link. You would load it 410 buck shot alternating with 45 cal.
The model chambered for 2.5 in shells is adequate and cheaper, there is however a new model in 3.00 in.
The recoil is minimal and has a soft comfortable grip.
I have the 2.5.
http://www.taurususa.com/products/pr...egory=Revolver
If you want a shotgun I recommend the Renington 870 Express synthetic folding stock. Very well made and proved in service for many years. Not overly expensive either. When I bought mine, I was told that this gun is legal in all states and is considered a sporting armament even if it does appear to be at first sight. Use buck shot also.
http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ding_stock.asp
I agree with Denny, that the venerable model 1911 in 45 cal is also an excellent choice.
JIM
We have the Taurus .38 special loaded similarly. Really should get some practice in.Quote:
Originally Posted by JIM CHALOUPKA
Thanks for the replies, looks like I need a gun with more knock down power. The gun I purchased is a Walther P22 semi automatic with a 10 round clip.
What is the difference in a "stinger" load and a regular 22 cal load? Does it have more powder or more lead or both?
Denny,
You bring up a very good point; look at what law enforcement uses! I think I will be buying a new gun and will use this one for target practice.
While I still believe that a good old 12 gauge with double ought buck is the best self defense weapon around anywhere, if you must carry a pistol get one that is easy to handle and get some training and lots of time at the range.
Understanding that bullet mass is important, it is more important to be accurate and the bigger the projectile the less accurate you will be, especially as a novice. The 22 target pistol will do the job, especially if you really know how to use it. Personally I have a S&W 9mm M and P that is fairly easy to learn and shoot with accuracy and a Sig Sauer P220/45 which is a handful and a bit more challenging to shoot accurately. Big caliber short barrelled weapons are the worst for comfort and accuracy, try a Glock 45 should you want a graphic demonstration.
Should you choose to upgrade, I would recommend a name brand (Smith/Wesson, Colt, etc.) and a weapon that is still in production. These guns all need some maintenance and all need routine cleaning, if you lose a spring or screw out of an out of production weapon you may play hell trying to find another.
While the Gun Broker is a very good resource, I would advise against buying anything from that source unless you are very familiar with the weapon offered. Go to your local gun dealer and find something that you like and is comfortable to handle, to disassemble, and to shoot....then and only then it is safe to go to the Gun Broker.
As flyu2 said a 22 will get the job done if you have the cool to be accurate, ie head shots.
Todays criminals are most likely trying to get money to drugs, so they can be hard to shot. This where mass comes into play. The Colt m1911 45 cal was adopted by the US Army because it spot a drug crazy HUD in the Phillipines.
The other thing have you every heard of a police shooting where they didn't empty the magazine into the Perp? They practice and they also need more than one shot.
If I was going to add one more handgun to my collection it would be the "Judge", 410 shot for two legged snakes and no leg snakes, plus a 44 cal round for stopping power.
GregM
I agree with the GMC BUFFALO
the Judge is a nice piece of metal to have
and it will take some stuff right out. Good weapon of Choice for the Bus on the Road Trips along with a Back up Handgun, I prefer 40 to 45 cal range though, and with lots of Range time getting off accurate shots isnt a problem.
I have a small arsenal of personal weapons, and find most of the comments here to be true to some degree, but they all depend on the exact situation
one is confronted with at the time.
I keep an 8 round Double Buckshot 12 ga. pump on my side of the bed along with a .40 cal in the headboard with 15 rounds and a spare clip ...
The Ruger 10/22 semi auto is fun, cheap to shoot and will take out a few things in the front yard, and if that dont work the AR-15 ( Colt L.E. 6920 L.E. ) will.. any further out than this and out comes the 30-06 or 7mm ...
If you want to see the Judge in action google it and watch the video as it is pretty impressive...
If you want ultimate indoor protection, look at the Beretta Extrema II 12 ga. shotgun, it will unleash 12 rounds in under 1.75 seconds..google it and check out the video... now after watching the video imagine having either slugs or Double 00 Buck shot in it...this works well for the Car Load of Would be Thieves that show up in the middle of your drive way in the middle of the night ... 12 rounds of buck shot will not only take out the occupants of the vehicle but will take out the vehicle as well ...
The Judge is just the right size to have in the Bus and will provide that comfort zone for those of us traveling in the Buses with coverage to spare.
Good luck with your choices and Remember to Protect your Second Amendment Right ...
If you think finding common ammo is difficult, then dont look for any Semi-Auto Stuff or even Auto stuff....
One source you may want to check with on AMMO is GT Distributors they have a store in Austin, TX and Chattanooga, TN and sell mostly to Law Enforcement but will sell to the public, they carry a nice line of weapons and ammo for very very good prices... google them and check out their web site.
Stay Safe & Enjoy ! ;)
Official POG Security Detail
There's been a lot of mention of the .410 Judge..... great choice but try to find one! My local shop said that there are more than 100,000 on back order!
Anyway, Tuga,
Shot placement is of primary concern. A large bullet does no good if it misses it's target and has the potential to do great harm.
A .40 or .45 can be difficult to control for a novice, and especially if you want a barrel length short enough for easy concealed carry.
Find a range that will let you rent several hand guns to try out. You want to feel comfortable and accurate.
I carry a Kahr K9 9mm. It fits nicely in my hand and is very accurate and reliable. I will sometimes carry a Kel-Tec P3AT .380 auto. This gun is very concealable but can be a bit of a challenge to shoot. Up close and personal is still no problem, though.
I also have a Browning BDM in 9mm. Another very comfortable and accurate gun but much more difficult to conceal.
My advice is to take the time to find the right combination for your intended carry and ability to shoot comfortably and accurately.
One of my friends presented me with a "congratulations on your bus house-warming gift"....... an M1 Carbine......much better than a bottle of wine!
Tuga, Let Karen shoot the 22 and get use to a firearm but get yourself a real gun !
I have owned a Judge for some time now and enjoy shooting it. The 410 cartridge swells a little after discharge and you have to pull them out but that would be "after the fact. " The recoil is not bad because it is a well balanced firearm with a nice grip. If I mix up the bullets, some 410 and some 45 I can't tell the difference in the recoil. I understand Crimson Trace just came out with a laser grip and I want one.
Now that I'm thinking about it didn't I show you my little 38 special with the laser at Titisville ? That might be something for you and Karen to consider.
Boys and their toys. I have a 454 casull, 45 long Colt Ruger revolver, 45 Auto 1911 but these I can use. I leave Shirley with a 38 Spcl. Colt Navy double action revolver. Double action is easy to use quick. No safety to find, no hammer to cock, no heavy sprung slide to pull back to load. Just point and squeze the trigger. The 38Spcl. is not large and scary caliber to shoot for women. Practice can be done with standard 38 bullets and 38 Specl. can be left in for effect. There are a lot of 44 magnum revolvers available for purchase cheaper mainly because people buy them and find they kick like a mule and get rid of them. They can be downloaded to standard 44 loads and be a comfortable load to use for everyday target practice. In defense the lighter loads will do the trick, just keep pulling the trigger. Any questions email me.
So when I was at the recent Comdex show in Vegas I stopped by the both that sells tasers for protection.
I'm just curious on the thoughts on that approach?
Ray
Ray,
The more I read about people involved with guns during an altercation the more I am skeptical about using one. I was told in the NRA class that if I fire the gun I should get ready to be:
1. Questioned by local law enforcement (instructor advised not talking until my attorney arrives). He also suggested having a good defense attorney's cell phone number stored in my cell phone.
2. More than likely be brought down to the police station and arrested
3. Get ready for a law suit and get read to spend a great deal of money defending myself.
Maybe that taser is a good idea!
You were well advised in your NRA class.
Remember my post regarding fighting for your life 3 times?
I couldn't actually see a taser in action at the show, I guess demonstrations have been banned now for the last several years.
Here's the website. I have no idea if this is a reasonable alternative, but it might be. There are a few videos at this site, which might be worth watching.
http://www.taserontv.com/
Ray
Nice comments and info here...
I still stand my ground on the second amendment right to keep and bear arms and protect myself, my family and my lively hood.. as well our country.
The weapon used to defends one's self in a given situation is all in the present situation you may be faced with or find yourself in the middle of and no two are usually ever alike. this is where the short order decision making comes to life...
If you can use a Tazer or a Stun Gun, Great you can save your lead and all the questions and intimidation's downtown... however those would be criminals I am reading about these days usually have some sort of weapon during their crime they are wishing to pull off... without one most of them would not have a chance, and weapons on the black market or easy to get and quicker than the process for us legal gun owners..
So don't bring a Knife to a Gun Fight or a Tazer or Stun Gun... I have to tell you if one of the Drug crazed or Criminal idiots comes at me with or without a weapon wishing for trouble then they will get it... I may have to go down town and let them try their intimidation games and ask all the questions... but then again hopefully I will be the one who is still alive to tell the story as to why I had to do what I had to do to defend myself or my family and I dont have a problem with that...neither does my 2nd Amendment Right.
Trust me the Criminals do not care about any of us for one second, and I got to tell you my feeling on defending myself and my family is of Greater mutal interest than theirs.
your either a well informed, and experienced individual and can make good judgment calls in short order or your a victim... I have not yet met any folks in between the two classes here...
The main part here is having the weapon that works best for yourself and knowing the Rules about carrying your weapon on the road in the confines of your Bus, when to use and when not to use it... Normally it is my experience that when you have some one staring down the barrel of a Weapon of any choice they will usually do as you request or run like hell to get away from you.. you can hopefully hold them at Gun Point till Law Enforcement arrives.
Just my personal opinion on the matter !
The thing to do is really stay current with the use of your weapon of choice that means a few times a month get it out and shoot it at the range and learn to become accurate with it...
We have weapons on board and I will do everything to avoid using one. However I sense the testosterone is flowing like sap in the spring and while everybody is talking about the force of bullets I wonder why nobody is even acknowledging the most powerful defense mechanism we all have.
We have 46,000 pounds of escape mechanism. If someone is threatening me I will turn the key and drive away. I don't care if I have to push a car out of my path or rip out the sewer, water and electric lines. I will first drive away before I consider shooting someone.
BTW, we never leave the front door unlocked so anyone threatening us has to get through a window to get access to us. Anyone tried to climb through a windshield lately?