Water Heater Replacement - Work in Progress

[jack14r]

When I had my Marathon I cheated by insulating the over temp sensor with a thick piece of paper and solved the problem.Jim,what I mean by kicking out the electrical element is that the high temperature that the water gets to during travel will activate the over temp sensor and then once you use up the hot water it will not allow the 110 volt element to work,and must be reset.You can verify this by touching the pipes at the heaters as the hot water flows.I always had a problem with one of them and I replaced both sensors.The ultimate protection is the pop off valves,which I have seen spewing a small stream of 190 degree water.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

When I had my Marathon I cheated by insulating the over temp sensor with a thick piece of paper and solved the problem.Jim,what I mean by kicking out the electrical element is that the high temperature that the water gets to during travel will activate the over temp sensor and then once you use up the hot water it will not allow the 110 volt element to work,and must be reset.You can verify this by touching the pipes at the heaters as the hot water flows.I always had a problem with one of them and I replaced both sensors.The ultimate protection is the pop off valves,which I have seen spewing a small stream of 190 degree water.

Jack you said, ",and must be reset." Where and how is this reseting done.

JIM

[jelmore]

Jim, there's a red reset button under the cover. Mine tripped on the first use after running a couple of hundred miles. Thought my new water heater was broken. I reset it that one time, have gone 1500 miles over several days, experienced some very hot water, and the electrical portion still works fine. It hasn't tripped since.

Anyone know the effect of turning off the coolant valves to the water heater? Will the entire circulation system still work fine?

[phorner]

Jim,

I have had the coolant valves to the hot water heater heater turned off with no apparent problems. The remainder of the Webasto coolant circulation system seemed to be fine. I just didn't heat up the hot water tank while driving down the road, so it meant waiting a bit for hot water when we stopped for the night, as we then had to rely solely on the electric element for hot water.

In my case, these valves had been turned off when I changed out the engine coolant, and forgot to turn them back on after the job was done.

A never ending learning experience!

[jack14r]

The valves should be labeled with a hanging tag,I have been told that you can turn them off but you won't have any heat in the coach,and the webasto will not circulate the water.The valves on my coach are gate valves and only open a little,call Troy and I bet he can tell you how much to open them.

[flloyd]

Funny that I just read this article again today while researching a solution to my headhunter toilet issue. It looks like I have the exact same problem as Jim Elmore, e.g. a 26" tank.





So far, no leaks and hot water works fine. I'm not sure if the heat exchanger is turned on or not, the valves didn't want to move in either direction. The base is definitely lifted up, just like Jims. I also checked the overpressure valve and it operates freely. My guess is that the heat exchanger probably causes this condition, along with age.

I'm on the road now in Minnesota and guess that I'll have to keep an eye on it for leaks until I can get it somewhere for repair. It's a long drive to Coach Worx, but I might get down that way in about 6 weeks. Although I'd love to fix this one myself, as in Tom's example, I just don't have the shop to do the work at home. So, it's off to find a qualified mechanic to do the work.

I, too, have the big ugly "sand filter thing" that Tom had. Should I get rid of it as well? My water pressure was lousy until I changed the prefilter which had a 0.5 micron carbon filter. Looking down the barrel of that cartridge there was a 3/16 orifice, no wonder the showers were a bit weak. I replaced it with a 10-micron sediment filter and am running the "sand filter thing" too. I'm not sure what the best practice is with regard to filtering. I normally drink bottled water and don't worry much about the taste.

I was working in the water bay to resolve a headhunter toilet problem. I had anemic flushing action and when I called HH they advised that I check the accumulator tank. Sure enough, it had zero pressure. I inflated it to 30 psi and - oh - what a difference! Not only does the HH flush like a champion now, there is a lot more tap water available before the pump comes on. I guess this means I'll probably need a new accumulator tank as the bladder is probably toast, but we'll see.

By the way, the Headhunter flush valve looks awfully like an ordinary garden sprinkler valve. Do you think one would work as a replacement? The HH version goes for around $240, which is highway robbery IMHO.

I sure wish I had auto-shutoff on the main tank fill. I've overflowed onto the campgrounds twice now in a week.

I also made a dumb mistake (turned off the holding tank alarm) and learned what happens when it gets full. Fortunately, the shower didn't overflow but I did have quite a sanitary situation to disinfect. All is well now.

Say John - does the Liberty operate off of city water or only by pump? When I'm hooked to city water and turn the pump off (and the tank fill off), I get nothing.

[truk4u]

Fred,

When I'm hooked to city water, I have to manually open the brass valve to allow water to flow to the bus. Mine is located in the plumbing bay (driver side). You can see the valve on the very bottom right side of this picture.

IMG_3524_1..JPG

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Fred,

A few comments. The accumulator tank has multiple purposes. As you now realize one of its purposes is to give a good steady flow to the Headhunter. But it also acts to relieve the expansion of water in the HW tank. Water expands when heated and unless it has somewhere to go it goes out the pressure relief. When the bladder is unpressurized as yours was the accumulator tank was merely water without an air cushion to handle that expansion. Additionally that accumulator eliminates the short cycling of your pump. For anyone with an accumulator tank in their coach, keeping it properly pressurized will allow the pump to run longer, and then rest longer as water is being drawn.

The flush valve is almost bullet proof. It is merely a rubber bladder with a small pinhole whose purpose is to equalize pressure on each side of the bladder. Short of a diaphragm failure or the inability to replace the flushing solenoid its only service may be an occasional cleaning of the pin hole if the toilet fails to shut off.

As to auto fill, I admit to being anti auto anything. Just like I hand fly climbs descents and all approaches, I manually fill my water tank and manually start my generator. As to the water tank fill, I want to know that not only is my fresh water filled, I also want to be assured the holding tank is emptied at the same time to eliminate the problem you describe.

Yes we can run from city water (open the valve at the fill pipe) but then you have to be certain you not only can trust the holding tank monitor, but that you pay attention to it. It is mechanical and mechanical stuff breaks. You already know the risk. My reward is I have never had to deal with an overflow on the holding tank. For that I gladly never rely on auto fill.

As to the benefits of operating on city water. In a Liberty there are none. The Liberty pump is big and delivers a strong flow and its purpose is to allow the use of the toilet while running other water. Not all city water supplies can deliver the flow so rather than guess if it will be adequate (it needs both good pressure and volume, both regulated by the campground water pipe installation) I just rely on the pump. Your decision may be different than mine.

[flloyd]

Fred,

A few comments. The accumulator tank has multiple purposes. As you now realize one of its purposes is to give a good steady flow to the Headhunter. But it also acts to relieve the expansion of water in the HW tank. Water expands when heated and unless it has somewhere to go it goes out the pressure relief. When the bladder is unpressurized as yours was the accumulator tank was merely water without an air cushion to handle that expansion.

Thanks. I never thought of that. I see clearly now that an accumulator with no charge pressure could possibly cause the water heater to swell. Good catch! Its amazing as well to consider how well the grey poly tubing holds up under pressure.

I don't know why my city water is so weak but now that the accumulator is charged, I have to agree that city water isn't very useful. On my coach, one cannot actuate the Tank Fill relay from inside the coach. Therefore, it might be handy to use city pressure since there is a Dump switch on the dash. This might be good, perhaps, for someone staying for an extended period in one spot.

[Charles Spera]

[QUOTE=Jon Wehrenberg;66125]

A few comments. The accumulator tank has multiple purposes. As you now realize one of its purposes is to give a good steady flow to the Headhunter. But it also acts to relieve the expansion of water in the HW tank. Water expands when heated and unless it has somewhere to go it goes out the pressure relief. When the bladder is unpressurized as yours was the accumulator tank was merely water without an air cushion to handle that expansion. Additionally that accumulator eliminates the short cycling of your pump. For anyone with an accumulator tank in their coach, keeping it properly pressurized will allow the pump to run longer, and then rest longer as water is being drawn.

I just had another "AHA" moment. I payed no attention to the short cycling of my water pump for some time now. After reading your message I went down to the shop and tok a pressure reading on the accumulator. Nada, zip, zero pressure. Hmmm. Sooo, a quick burst with the air line and now it seems happy. One question though; is 40-45# about right for the precharge?
Thanks for the insight.