New Member needing info on Marathon Coaches1990-2002

[Matt_in_AZ]

Welcome to the forum. You will find a wealth of information here from knowledgeable resources. I have owned my first Prevost, a 1997 XLV Marathon, since April. I am very pleased with the purchase. Even more so after a trip in June to Vancouver, BC which included a visit to the Marathon factory in Oregon to take the factory tour. As I am sure you know there are several converters from the years you mentioned that are no longer in business. Those coaches are sometimes nicknamed "orphans". Marathon is one of the few that are still operating. One could argue that those still in business were the best managed. On the tour of the Marathon factory they described how they survived the economic down turn by focusing on service, repairs, and renovations during the period they didn't build (read as couldn't sell) any new coaches. They kept their core employees occupied cleaning the floors, painting, and doing building maintenance just to retain the core knowledge and expertise that created Marathon's reputation for quality. Touring the factory and seeing how they design, fabricate, and build coaches was impressive and I now know why my 20 year old coach has no "creaks", "squeaks", "tweaks", or otherwise while rolling down the road. Extra effort like scribing every interior panel to an exact fit, interlocking (think puzzle pieces) the ceiling panels for strength and durability, and the almost OCD level of routing/labeling/dressing/terminating every wire on the coach adds to both initial quality and long-term usability (not to mention ease of maintenance).

If you have any need for service and support of the Marathon conversion there is no doubt that Marathon is in the business of supporting their fleet of coaches. After the public tour, my family was given the new owner tour of the rest of the operation which included learning about (and eventually joining) the Marathon Owners organization and meeting all of the service, maintenance, and technical managers. They keep track of the coaches by coach number. As owner of Coach #450 three or four of the people we met at Marathon remembered building it originally back in 96/97, maintaining it over the years, the previous owner's upgrades, and some unique aspects of my coach (mine was apparently the first built with Independent Front Suspension or IFS from Prevost). We felt like one of the family right away even though we had the least expensive coach on property.

Marathon is considered one of the best conversions and while the value today of Marathons is competitive with other converters that may change in another 10-15 years as some of the older coaches need more TLC and the existence/availability of factory support commands a premium for those converters still in business compared to the "orphaned" conversions. Only time will tell. However, we saw Country Coaches being renovated by Marathon, so they can work on probably any coach. Also keep in mind that I found more Marathon owners and more Marathon related posts on this forum than some of the orphaned coaches.

My search for a coach included the pre-requisite for a Detroit Diesel Series 60 AND Allison 6-speed transmission with IFS being a "plus" but not required. The pre-emissions DD60 is considered to be one of the best power plants ever produced with longevity that should allow it to easily go 750k miles or perhaps 1M miles before an out-of-frame rebuild. A DD60 pushing a coach with a GVWR of 49,800 lbs. is operating at "light duty" compared to the same motor in a tractor trailer pulling up to 80,000 lbs. all day, every day. A friend just had his oil changed at Detroit Diesel on his 2000 DD60 (also in a Marathon) and saw a post-emissions DD60 motor being rebuilt at under 450k miles which seemed contrary to popular opinion of the DD60 series. The Detroit Diesel mechanics stated that the emissions requirements mandated by government regulation cause the motor to run leaner and hotter which reduces lifespan and the corresponding time between rebuilds. The mechanics stated that the "sweet spot" for Detroit Diesels includes the DD60s introduced in Prevosts around mid-1995 until emissions were added in 2002 (IIRC). These years also are known to get the best fuel mileage as well. This may not seem like a big deal but wait until you pull up to the big rig pumps at the local truck stop and put nearly 200 gallons in the tank.

Bus Air was something I was originally interested in owning being a resident of Arizona; however, there are some drawbacks which include losing a full-sized bay of storage and from what I have read a very expensive system to repair and/or replace. When driving my coach with the 30,000 BTU driver's air (comes from dash and driven by the DD60) I get ice cold air (it will freeze the coils at low fan speeds). I can also run (2) of the (3) 15,000 BTU cruise-airs (galley and bedroom) and keep the coach very comfortable even at 115 degrees outside. Starting the generator gives me the salon cruise-air but this is right above the dash-air and not really needed. Parked outside of my home in 115 degree heat while loading or unloading the bus following heat-soak using only the (3) cruise-airs is challenging to keep it comfortable in the heat of the day. I can keep it tolerable (below 85 degrees) but when your cruise-air condensers are located in the front of the bus on the underneath side there is only so much air circulation available particularly when I have the generator running with its radiator ejecting heat in the same zone of the bus underbelly. I don't plan on camping in 115, only driving through it. Bus Air would be the only A/C needed while driving but it will not help when parked in 115 unless the DD60 motor is running; therefore, I am fine with my cruise-airs and dash-air while running down the hot highway. I am not sure roof-airs sitting in 115 would be a lot better but they do have access to more open air (especially if there is a breeze) sitting up high even though they are probably getting heat soaked by the ambient heat and direct sun exposure.

Ask questions, have a qualified person/shop complete a thorough Pre-Purchase Inspection (PPI), and take your time to find the right coach. The purchase of a motor coach includes aspects of buying a luxury home and a luxury car rolled in with an onboard AC electrical generation facility, DC electrical storage with AC conversion, freshwater distribution system, and wastewater storage. These are complex vehicles. Run away from anything that looks like it has been "hacked" by an unqualified DIY'er. Also look for detailed records. I have every owner's manual, every owner-furnished purchase document, and every maintenance record for my 20 year old coach. When you are sitting in your coach the first weekend and you are trying to figure out how something operates, don't underestimate the value of documentation. When watching the TV show Airplane Repo you learn to appreciate the effort they go through to find the logs and documentation because the value of an aircraft is sometimes reduced in half without the logs and documentation. While the value of a coach doesn't seem to be affected by the existence or lack of documentation as a future owner it can make the difference between quickly learning the coach's operations and struggling through a long learning curve.

[B&RBergstrom]

You have certainly given us a lot of answers to questions I'm not sure I would of thought of.

[B&RBergstrom]

Will be better prepared with questions soon. We enjoy dry camping so I'm looking for info on batteries and generator
Tank sizes and I actually saw a Prevost with propane as well as electric cook top.. Only one though .. Can it be added?
Slide vs non slide .. So many thoughts and questions..this will be our full time home so storage and closet space is important as well as under carrage space
thank you again for all the info

[Gil_J]

Matthew gave you some great information.

Some of us don't mind SOME orphaned coaches. It really comes down to how extensive their proprietary systems are and the support network that may still exist.. Everything else can be serviced by any qualified technician. Personally, I've only owned orphans, 2006 Beaver Contessa 42 after Beaver was acquired by Monaco and not supported by Monaco, a 99 Country Coach Prevost conversion after the original CC was sold off, and now a 2003 Hoffman Prevost H-3 conversion with nothing in the way of proprietary systems. BTW, because these coaches are orphans you can often get a better buy.

Some will only focus on conversions from converters still in business. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. It's a personal choice. It does limit what you are going to look at and possibly features you really like. Take Royale, as an example. They were known for their wood grain interiors while almost all other conversions of the time used laminates. Or Country Coach, they had their own "right sized" bus air that didn't take up any bay space, didn't weigh 750 pounds or require 37HP to operate. My recommendation is to look at all of the conversions and see what conversions stand out in meeting your needs.

All XL model slides will be after market. Everyone I've looked at appeared to be well engineered. The biggest caution on XL models with slides is weight. One converter installed the generator in the engine bay likely to overcome front axle weight issues. They did the same thing in a MCI J4500 they convertered, so maybe they had another reason. What every the reason, I can't imagine having the generator in the engine bay.

[B&RBergstrom]

Thanks Gil I have seen some of the orphan coaches not really sure who is still operating. Really liked a Vision was set up electricity and propane.. i like the Vision,Country Coach I have seen went to Tampa last year that helped some just trying to absorb as much as I can

[Matt_in_AZ]

@Gil - I hope that you and other POGers did not take offense to the use of the word "orphaned" in the context of coaches which have survived the death of their "parent" converters. I have seen that term used frequently throughout these forums and endeavored to use similar vernacular.

Gil brings up good points. If you search for any length of time on this forum you will find that he is one of the many members here that is very mechanically inclined and capable of self-performing a great deal of work on his coach. I include myself in that same category. Once an owner learns his/her coach and assuming he/she has the aptitude/ability to maintain, upgrade, or otherwise turn a wrench on his/her coach the importance of the factory being in business today is less important. Keep in mind that there are plenty of owners who rely heavily on the factory or other authorized service facility to take care of even basic items like changing bulbs. Only you can decide in which category you belong. You should also plan to buy a set of tools to leave in the bus to take care of all the little items that need to be adjusted while enjoying the use of your coach. Like a permanent home, these require regular maintenance and upkeep.

I have only seen one coach (a Vision being sold over in CA) which has propane on board. Unless you really feel the need to utilize a gas cooktop in lieu of an electric cooktop I would steer clear of propane. I have seen what a propane explosion looks like and it isn't pretty. However, it is a staple for most RVs and the risk of a problem is statistically insignificant. I wouldn't want to lose the bin space or have to deal with filling propane. If you are a gourmet chef who needs propane I would suggest you could probably have it added to almost any coach you like because finding one with it included would be like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack.

Ask more questions...

[Gil_J]

Matt, no offense taken.

My recommendation to prospective buyers when it comes to orphans is don't close the door on these coaches until you've looked at them. Some orphans have a better support network than some of the coaches from production companies. Furthermore, the owners of some orphan conversion companies are still in business today as service companies. Although some might disagree, some orphan coaches are easier to maintain than some production company conversions because the orphan company provided detailed documentation. It may be hard to believe, but at least one converter doesn't even provide fuse and circuit breaker identification or they didn't in their 2006 models.

I've seen 3 Visions. All three were converted entertainer chassis that are 3-4" taller than motorhome chassis. Just another tidbit on the different XL models that use to be available. The ones I looked at seem well done with what little time I spent in them.

There was a time when propane was installed in conversions as a way to meet electrical code requirements, not because the buyers wanted propane. There was a time when Oregon didn't make any electrical distinctions between a motorhome and a mobile home. One of there requirements was to energize all electrical systems to make sure the commercial power feed could handle the load. There were two ways converters got around this requirement. One way was to use a propane cooktop and hot water heater. The other way was to install a second shore power feed. FWIW, I've only seen a propane cooktop in one post 2010 conversion and that was at the customer's request. It can certainly be done and it wouldn't be that hard to install a compliant system, if you can't live without gas cooking. A better idea may be to install an outdoor gourmet kitchen so you will quickly meet your neighbors at dinner time.

[B&RBergstrom]

Great info Matt,Between you and Gil learning and thinking about options.