All the help I can get

[lbriant]

Bob,
This is your lucky day my wife and I are full timers, and It just so happens I just decided to sell my bus for $399,000
And I will leave the Rubicon hooked on for you,

[Joe Camper]

Ya know they say the best humor has an element of truth.

It has baffled me how more buses for sale by pog members aren't scarfed up by other members without buses and in the market.

Larry just the toad hu how about the chocolate lab that don't go with it too. What the heck.

If I were looking ib be definally talking with folks like u.

Hopefully this new member hasn't been taken under the radar.

I

[lbriant]

Unfortunately our Lab passed last year, but notice I didn't say anything about the Harley

[Bobbyd9083]

Hi Larry,

Although I'm trending toward a Liberty with dual slides. I want to keep an open mind on other available coaches. Can you send more pictures and specs on your coach.

Thank you
Bob

[lbriant]

Bob,
I was just kidding with you as my coach would not be a $400,000 dollar coach,
My wife and I love our coach, if any one thing we would have done differently is the back bed, the headboard is against the back closets and shoe caddie mirror doors, we would rather have the bed sideways and have a walk in closet.
But It is still a real head Turner!!!!
And I love the twin 4000 watt inverters it is so nice when dry camping at Nascar!!!
I would also like a double slide instead of just one slide like mine,
This will probably be our only coach as we know it pretty well by now and have been trying to take Good are of it,
I have looked at allot of coaches for myself and other people let me know what you are looking at,
Thanks and good luck!!!

[Gil_J]

Bob,

So, you’ve decided on a 2 slide coach. IMHO, that is a great configuration. My personal preference would be a single living area slide. Although a single slide is a typical “star” coach configuration, single slides are not as prevalent in motorhomes.

You didn’t say if you are looking at an XL-II or H-3. Given Liberty didn’t make any slide equipped XLs that I know of, I assume XLs are not being considered. All 3 models are great motorhome shells. What the converters do to them sometimes is not good. The biggest issue, as I see them, is total weight and weight distribution. Some of these coaches are overweight, especially on the front axle. People love the granite flooring throughout, but the weight of the flooring is sometimes just too much. Even some that aren’t overweight, will be when outfitted to support the owner. I would insist on each wheel position being weighed before I spent your budget on a coach. You probably know that some XL-IIs have suffered from a panel delamination problem. If you end up with one of these coaches, the cost of repair and repainting can be more than you might expect. If you do decide on an XL-II, I recommend you have it tested by Prevost as a condition of the sale.

I assume you have nailed down the floorplan you like as well. Although making changes to the interior can be done, they can be cost prohibitive (unless you never plan to sell the coach) and can take a long time to complete. When looking for a conversion I would rank floorplan, fabrics and finishes, and paint job as the most critical considerations (in that order).

You are looking at Liberties. They are the king of bling and enjoy a very loyal following. To some, buying a conversion from a converter that is still in business is a big deal. If this is your preference, just realize there are support capabilities for most, if not all, orphaned conversions. A good example can be seen not far from your home. Donnie Myers Luxury Coach could well be renamed Vantare given their expertise and history with Vantare. System obsolescence and converter proprietary systems should be our biggest concern. My biggest concern would be the software controlled coach automation systems used by some. Some, probably most, converters were using Crestron systems. Although a very capable home automation product, if wasn’t intended to control some of the systems that some converters ran through the Crestron controller. Custom electronic interface modules had to be developed. These may no longer be supported, in some cases. The other concern is how easy you can adapt these automation products to new systems, like something as simple as changing a TV. This can be an expensive software configuration change. I think all converters have their qualities and issues, regardless of whether or not they are still in business. I’m a hands on kind of owner, so my preference would not be a Liberty. Again, it’s a personal preference.

Air conditioning, while driving and while parked, is another area of debate where converters differed. Some converters opted to have their shells equipped with Prevost’s optional over the road air. Unfortunately, Prevost only offered a single OTR air option. There’s no doubt this system will keep you as cold as you’d like while driving. It should given it was sized for a passenger coach with full sided windows and 50+ passengers all trying to heat their surroundings to 98.6 degrees. The down side to Prevost’s OTR air in a motorhome application is that you lose 2 half bays and take on about 750 extra pounds. The compressor uses about 30HP and most of the temperature regulation is done by adding engine-produced heat rather than cycling the compressor. So, your fuel mileage will be impacted when using Prevost’s OTR air when compared to other options. Some converters used Prevost’s dash air and their own OTR air that is sized for a motorhome. Finally, many converters simply decided to use the coach’s 120VAC air condition system that will be used while parked to also cool the coach while driving. Unlike traditional coaches, these 120VAC AC units are powered by the inverters or engine mounted AC generator when driving.

120VAC air conditioning is required when parked and they vary from roof airs, split units (typically Cruise-Airs), or basement airs (much like those used in mobile homes). Roof airs are the cheapest and don’t take any storage space away from the bays. The down side is they tend on being the noisiest option. Depending on how the cruise-airs are installed, many find these to be inadequate on hot days when parked on hot asphalt. Generally, there aren’t any complaints when the coach is parked in a camp site. FWIW, Cruise-Airs are no longer offered in non-marine applications and service may be more difficult to find unless you are near large boat service centers (not a problem in FL). The biggest problem with Cruise-Airs is how they are installed. Some converters make accessing the basement units almost impossible for service. Basement air systems weren’t used by many converters, which is a shame. These can be the easiest to maintain and the quietest of the group. Their biggest problem was getting enough BTUs out of 120VAC powered systems. To overcome that limitation, most had 2 120VAC compressor in a single unit. At least one converter, Bruce Coach, installed 240VAC basement airs.

Power systems, ancillary air systems, and plumbing are other areas of difference

[travelite]

Gil,

Isn't Vantare still in business?

I think this hot pavement thing with CruiseAirs is a myth. I've never experienced it with my four 16,000 BTU CruiseAirs. I suppose older implementations may have suffered but I think by the mid 2000's the converters pretty much figured out how to mount and configure CruiseAirs to work. For the life of me I can't figure out roof airs on a $1.4M coach, and as BenC says the new roof units don't hold up. No one can argue with the ability of Prevost bus air but I know I don't want to give up a full basement bay for the luxury. My 64,000 BTU of CruiseAirs does perfectly fine when motoring down the highway.

The shelf life of A/V equipment is pretty short; we all no that. Any coach over ten years old is going to need an upgrade including new RTI or Crestron controls. Figure spending some money in this area and don't base your buying decision on lack of state-of-the-art A/V equipment.

If you travel with kids or are a pack rat, consider an H3. H3's are unparalleled in their basement storage capability. Along with storing all of your belongings they also better accommodate conversion infrastructure which is probably one reason CruiseAirs work so well in H3's.

I think converters either layout all the knobs and buttons to an owner or they try to hide them behind layers of user friendliness. From my view Vantare leans to the former while Liberty to the latter with Marathon somewhere in the middle. I'm not sure about Millennium but maybe an owner can chime in.

Being a geek, I put systems functionality (including floorplan and furnishings), systems completeness, and systems user control and configuration above colors and fabrics. IOW's, form follows function for me. My wife balances all this with color and fabric preferences.

[Bobbyd9083]

Gil,

I'm so happy you took the time to respond as I spend continuous hours on the forum and looking at all the coaches. I can not wait to hit the road I'm looking for a XL2. I guess by the way you are talking you are partial to the country coach. Does you're coach not have OTR air? Just from what I am learning OTR is also a great backup if one of the other systems goes down. I will continue on getting educated and looking at as many coaches as I can before I make my final decision. Thank you again for all the help I look forward to meeting you in person.

Bob

[travelite]

Bob,

Most of the converters, Vantare and Marathon for certain, will allow you to run your roof air or CruiseAir conditioners from your inverters. My Vantare has two Trace SW4024 pure sinewave inverters which allow me to run two CruiseAirs of my choosing. This isn't true with Liberty. Liberty, of the years that you're considering, will only run it's 120VAC air conditioners on generator or shore power. But, Liberty's always have Prevost bus air which gives you the redundancy you need. Say your bus air goes down, what do you do to make it thru the Mojave Desert? Well, the answer is simple, you crank up your generator and you run your 120VAC air conditioners. In my Vantare if my generator goes down and I need to make it thru the Mohave what do I do? Well, I run two CruiseAirs off my DD Series 60 alternator via my Trace inverters. In addition I have my 30,000 BTU dash chassis air. It's always good to have options and redundancy. The beauty of the Trace pure sinewave inverters is that they're always phase locked on to either shore or genny power when running. This way power is transferred seamlessly when switching between shore, or genny, or inverters (via battery power). Your computers or other loads will never hiccup. Liberty didn't use pure sinewave inverters until late 2006 early 2007.

As an example of how this works, say I'm driving along with two CruiseAirs running off my generator. I pull into a campground. As I pull in I turn off my generator obeying the CG rules. My CruiseAirs are now seamlessly powered by my battery bank and my DD S60 alternator. I back into my pad and turn off the engine. My CruiseAirs are now powered by my battery bank. I unreal my glendenning and plug into shore power. My CruiseAirs are now seamlessly powered by the shore power. The CruiseAirs have no clue that power has switched from four different supplies - first generator, then alternator, then batteries, then shore power. Seamless.

[lbriant]

My bus has twin 4000 watt inverters it will run all 4 roof airs but it will overload the generator after a few hours when it goes to kick on,
3 airs is a crap shoot 2 airs seem to work flawlessly, but we always run #1 up front while driving if it's hot, and also dry camping if it's real hot when we shut down it will run my whole coach and one air all night easy without kicking off the generator,
At Nascar we run 2 airs all day and one at night we run the gen about 2 1/2 hrs every morning and evening again after dinner, just so it won't start up during the night, some time in the evening it fires the gen on its own and I just let it run and it shuts itself off after full charge usually close to 3 hrs,
Everything is so flawless you can even set how much amps to pull off a camp sight 50 amp box to keep from blowing weak breakers and having to argue with a camp host that thinks it's impossible to run 4 airs at once,
Although you still have to watch out the amps build up with electric water heater, hair dryer, microwave ect etc