Alison Tranny Retarder vs Jake Brake

[MangoMike]

Having just recently experienced with a lot of miles both the Jake (H3)and The Retarder (Libery Xl1) (or The Retardo as the Mangoettes call it). I have to comment.

Retarder Hands Down Winner:

Performs as intended in slowing the bus down. Does a much better job than the Jake. I can come off the interstate into the decelaration lane and use the Retarder without having to touch the brakes until it drops into first gear. I can't do that with jake. With the Jake I'm using the brakes a lot more than with the Retardo in the Liberty.

I know all the worries and comments about fluid temperature, and until a month ago when Jon posted here I thought the magic number was 230, but even out West, with some planning, I rarely exceeded 230. Now I know this means more frequent fluid changes, but I think this is a small price to pay. The bus definetly stops quicker and with less brake action with the Retarder.

I wish is was on the new H3.


Mike

[truk4u]

Mango Man,

Are you sure your in the high position with the Jake? Turbo boost will tell the story when comparing the low/high setting. Your also probably heavier than the poor ole long forgotten Mothership I.

[MangoMike]

Trukman,

Definetly in the high position. You're right, weight be a factor, but there is a dramatic difference.

Mike

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Strictly an opinion here, but a Jake is sensitive to high RPM. It wants high RPM to be effective and with the Series 60 which in our buses is biased to let the economy mode be primary it is possible the Jake is working at much less than its full potential.

As to the suggestion the retarder output temps are not exceeding 230, I believe that but also know when the retarder is on and brakes are applied the temps exceed that. The cynic in me suggests that is why the newer coaches with retarders do not have a transmission temperature gauge. That information is available, but the driver has to scroll down through pages in the ProDriver to access the information and in this marketplace few drivers even think about these things.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Hey Mike, I think you can have a Retarder added to your new H baby, if you really wanted to? Somebody feel free to correct me if I am wrong about this.

I tried to find some info on the Allison Transmission web site, to send along but could not find anything about the retarders at all?

Gary S

[jonnie]

If you don't believe your jake is slowing you down as it should and if it is RPM sensitive as Jon says, I believe Allisson can adjust the Jake and the trasmission to go from 6 to 2 instead of 6 to 4. This is how my exhaust brakes worked in the past, but I don't if this applies to Jake Brakes.

John

[Jon Wehrenberg]

John,

The Jake is independent of the tranmission and is integral with the engine. It functions by dumping compressed air from the cylinders when the coach is coasting. It has a high and low position which uses more or less cylinders.

A retarder is integral to the transmission, and when in use it will downshift as programmed. When using a Jake the driver must manually downshift.

[rfoster]

Mango: FYI, Frank K., Jr. at Liberty was asked by A1 - why the retardo? vs the Jake? Response was - it stops better. End of discussion.

In addition the new lower sulphur fuel at 15 ppm has less BTUs, requiring more fuel to achieve the same power meaning that Al Gore has come up with a plan to burn more fuel to burn less sulfur? It is pretty well a given that the fuel economy of the series 60 will be negatively impacted by two tenths to .25 mpg with the new fuel. This according the Detroit Diesel representatives at the recent Liberty Rally.

Dang its cold - I liked the good old days before global warming, I hope it warms up soon. .

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Fast Roger is an optimist.

Since I record every single gallon of fuel that flows through my bus I will be able to compare the last 12 months fuel burn per mile with the previous 12 month period and I will share the results at POG III.

I can't go further back because we got the Hummer 24 months ago and the Jeep was lighter.

I drive at the same speed so the results will show the real impact of the fuel change. It is probably double what DD says.

[MangoMike]

Hey Mike, I think you can have a Retarder added to your new H baby, if you really wanted to? Somebody feel free to correct me if I am wrong about this.

Gary S

Gary,

Not at a good use of Lew Bucks at this time. I'll just learn to live with it and stop whinning.

Thanks

Mike