Alison Tranny Retarder vs Jake Brake

[BrianE]

I agree with Jon about the brake lights coming on. The Jake in our busses (8V's are the worst ) are not nearly as effective as they are in a truck and no truck that I've ever driven has jake actuated brake lights. I admit I don't have the trucking experience of many of our esteemed Poggers so I might stand to be corrected. Tom? Joe?

Last year Beverly was descending a long grade in the bus, we were being followed by an acquaintance (Winnebago). At the end of the day I was approached confidentially and told I might need to counsel my wife about riding the brakes. Needless to say I set him straight very quickly and ever since have been meaning to try and disable this feature.

This discussion prompted me to call Prevost yesterday morning. I was informed by one of the area service managers that this is a common request and he promptly informed me that removing Relay 76 labled "Jake Brake Signal" in the engine compartment electrical panel would disable this feature. I can't imagine he would have shared this information with me if Prevost feels this is a significant safety item. Needless to say, I now have another spare relay. Of course it's very possible that different models and years may have varying relay numbers but would bet the labeling would be correct.

BrianE
94Liberty XL

[truk4u]

Brian,

The older trucks did not turn on the brake lights with the jake, the newer ones do. My Marathon does not turn on the lights and I wouldn't have it any other way. I like the jake function while on cruise control. My chassis is 10 years old and if the brake lights came on with the jake, I would lose the cruise. I suppose the newer buses have become more electronic where the jake/cruise/light are all controlled by the computer and work in harmony.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

During the Tampa RV show I stopped at the Allison Transmission booth, and asked the Allison Transmission Man, the question I posed to you guys earlier in this Post.

Retarder or Jake Brake.

This information comes straight out of the Allison manual and agrees with pretty much everything everyone out there has said, but I thought I would pass on the information as it is 100% Reliable.

The cost of owning and using a Transmission Retarder DOUBLES compared to the ownership of a Jake brake. But I guess you all knew that

Fluid change using Transynd is 300,000 miles Normal Operation or 48 Months
Fluid change using TES389 is 150,000 miles using a Retarder or 48 Months
Fluid change using Transynd is 25,000 miles Normal Operation or 12 Months
Fluid change using TES389 is 12,000 miles using a Retarder or 6 Months.

The filter change is also dramatically different ( Cut in Half ) depending on Retarder or NOT.

The problems of overheating, and causing major problems apparently has been solved or eliminated, because the Allison Man said they had experienced no problems recently??? Even Rick Thompson insists on the Retarders and believes in them, and puts Retarders on all of his new Thompson coaches.

Enquiring Minds want to KNOW

Gary S

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary: You may wish to edit the maintenance schedule to reflect Dextron, not transynd requires 25000 mile changes and Dextron will never go 150000 miles with a retarder.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Gary, Please check your post for typos and weather you said what you meant. If everything is correct I will be back for an explanation. JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think Gary just transposed fluids in his tabulation.

But re-reading the post brings something to mind that the pilots on this forum will appreciate. We are guided by limits. We have limits for airspeeds, oil temperature, cylinder head temperatures, etc.

These limits are exactly akin to the Allison transmission limits for temperature.

There is not a pilot on this forum, or any other for that matter that runs his plane at the limits unless he is attempting some speed or other records. If our transmission temperature limit is XXX, the further we are from that limit during normal operations the better it is for the life of the fluids and transmission. They are saying that without saying that explicitly by classifying the use of a retarder as severe duty.

I agree the transmission retarder might be more effective than a Jake, but I want my Jake because every time my retarder kicks in I know I am taking money from my pocket and I am having an adverse impact on my fluids and transmission.

[rfoster]

The comments from the Allison Tranny Man reminds me of the comments of one my former employees: " I ain't lying this time".

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

Gary: You may wish to edit the maintenance schedule to reflect Dextron, not transynd requires 25000 mile changes and Dextron will never go 150000 miles with a retarder.

I tried to copy the Schedule Maintenance Log out of the Allison Info packet but could not find a way to copy it into this Post. I will try to correct any misinformation I gave last night.

Two types of Filters Gold Series / High Capacities

The information I posted yesterday was taken from the High Capacity Filter Information not the Gold Series, which I am sorry was very misleading.

Jon, you mentioned Dextron, but Transynd or TES295 is mentioned all over the information packet as the Fluid used ? The Optional fluid and changed more often fluid is TES389 or MIXTURE* as stated in the booklet?

The mileage (300K) I posted was taken directly out of the information provided for the 4000 series High Capacity Filter info.

But after I got your reply posts, I got on the web like I should have gotten the first time and found this VERY INFORMATIVE AND HELPFUL WEB SITE. This should help clear everything in my post up, and correct any and all MisSpeaks that I may have entered last night.
http://www.allisontransmission.com/s...rval/index.jsp

Sorry I was trying to be helpful, but just confused the issue. My MAIN reason for posting was to Strengthen the advantage of the Jake vs the Retarder due to the Higher Maintenance cost.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary, quite the contrary. You did not confuse anything because of inadvertandly transposing a listing. We know what it meant and thanks for posting.

I am using the common terms of Transynd which is a proprietary synthetic (Castrol I think) and Dextron, the common ATF.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Gary, Have no fear the typos are inconsequential. Since we are trying to be exrtemely accurate I just wanted to mention it in a friendly way. You know 300,000 mi. from now I might forget what I now know. When I go to look it up I just want the data to be right. Thanks for going the extra mile to be helpful. JIM