A funny thing happened to me on the way to the DMV

[truk4u]

With all due respect to the Pres., none of that matters when it comes time to sell. He will be selling an 05 instead of an 07 and the buyer won't care about any explanation when it all comes down to money. Maybe Ken or Steve will jump in here from a coach sales perspective, but a 2 year shift in title year would have me spending less. Of course if I had the Pres's money, it would be a non issue!

[kenrobertson]

Morning Ronald - I have a couple of terminology questions - You said you had a 2007 "title" - Has the coach been previously titled in another state, or are you referring to the MSO, manufacturers statement of origin, issued by Teschner? Second, have you already completed the "title application" while at the DMV ? If it has been "titled" in Florida, as a 2005, I'm not sure if there is any way to have it reversed, but I am going to be at our local DMV office tomorrow to pick up some completed title work, and I will ask for help ( beg for mercy ). I'm afraid I have to side with Truk, rather than Pres, on the value issue. I have a 1996 Marathon that was supposed to be titled as a 1998, according to the Marathon MSO, but was originally titled from the Prevost MSO. NOBODY is buying my explanation, and offering me '98 prices for it!

Give me a call, or stop by,

Ken

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This issue with the year of the coach is going to be around as long as a new shell of a certain year (according to the Prevost VIN) is completed and titled in a subsequent year by the converter.

I remember a screaming match between a buyer and the seller of a coach when the new owner found his DMV was going by the Prevost model year and not the converter model year. It got ugly and there were words like "sue", "lawyer", "damages", etc. being thrown around. Ken is on the front lines and knows some buyers are cognizant of how some coaches are registered as a model year that might be two or more years different than the chassis model year. Others are not and when they find out after the fact that their 2006 pride and joy is recognized by Prevost as a 2002 they go crazy.

We have joked and played with people's heads about the cost to join POG and the reality is the $100 is one of the best investments a potential buyer can possibly make. I am not suggesting a coach registered as a 2006 on a 2002 or 3 chassis is worth less, but I am suggesting potential buyers are better equipped to make good informed decisions if they join POG and tap into the collected knowledge before they buy a coach and then find out the hard way they don't even know what they don't know.

Here is my free advice to Ronald.......You can let this gnaw at you and rob you of the joy of owning such a fine coach or you can accept the fact your converter took some time to create the motorhome you have. The only time the length of time in service, the chassis model year, and the year on the title or registration counts is if you intend to flip the coach and buy another. At that point you have to accept the fact knowing buyers are going to be more interested in the coach's value to them than an arbitrary birth date. The people who are never satisfied unless they beat the seller into submission on the price will use any excuse, including the model year, so if it is not the age of the coach that gets them to offer low ball prices it will be the fact there is some obscure defect thaey can use to try to "steal" the coach.

Don't let this bother you. It is what it is and unless you now don't see the value in what you paid you still have a coach you can enjoy immensely.

[BoaterAl]

Just to throw another log in the fire on this thread, Ronald. What did the insurance company have to say about the bus insurance ? What year are you paying premiums on? If you leave this as is and enjoy your bus (Jon's point) maybe this is the time to be paying insurance on the year the DMV says.

Another point with Jon and Truk with all there buried dollars in coffee cans around the yard........this is not an issue as both being "self insured".

I always get this confused as the insurance company will write the policy for ..agreed value or depreciated value and give the bus owner the option. Of course policy premiums are based on the owners decision and the year of the bus.

[Steve Bennett]

These vehicle are built as an incomplete vehicle by Prevost. The conversion company then completes the vehicle, and issues the Title as a manufacturer. We have had success in California getting the year changed with a statement of facts, and an inspection. Your coach should have 2-placards, one from Prevost that will say that it is an incomplete vehicle, and a second from Techner showing the completion of the vehicle and model year. Every state is different in how they operate their DMV. I would recommend finding an independent Title company that handles vehicle registration in your state. They should be able to help you, and let you know if this will be possible in your home State. This is also a common problem that many other motorhomes have, including popular Class C models that are built on a incomplete van type chassis. Most DMV offices have a Vin decoder built into their computer systems, that will spell out the year based on the Vin number. They need to override this feature on these types of vehicles. Please feel free to call us if we can be of assistance (800) 460-7989.

[Reagan Sirmons]

Wow!
Did I ever get beat up. I am going to go lick my wounds. I lost this one I really have to admit!
I was trying to encourage Ronald but did not do a good enough job. I stand corrected.
I do agree in retrospect that the buyer will be very tough on any negotiations....that is a great, great point. (2005 versus 2007 is huge under these thought processes).
It would be interesting to me to know if the sellers of the coach advertised the coach as being a 2006 and then later changed the coach to a 2007 ?
I am not a lawyer but do know that fraud is defined as the intential omission of a material fact....an obvious intent to deceive.
Is a motor coach like a house where caveat emptor "let the buyer beware" prevails? Yet, even on a house in Texas you have to sign a statement that you are not aware of material defects, etc.
Pres

[jack14r]

Ron,When your coach was on ebay I asked the seller for the vin number because I knew that that coach and the red one had been for sale for a number of years,I think that I first remember your coach for sale in 2006 and it might have been listed as a 2006 at that time,I was almost sure that the shell was not newer than a 2005 but I was aware that it had 365 tires which meant that it was at least a 2004 or newer shell.The vin number confirmed that it is a 2005 shell and in most buyers opinion that understand our conversions it really is a 2006 conversion.A 2004 Liberty was sold recently which has a 2004 shell,I would think that most buyers would think that they are getting something extra in this case and I would think so also.With almost all converters gone except for a couple the values of the orphan coaches are what the market has decided they are worth.

[Sawbonz]

Ron,When your coach was on ebay I asked the seller for the vin number because I knew that that coach and the red one had been for sale for a number of years,I think that I first remember your coach for sale in 2006 and it might have been listed as a 2006 at that time,I was almost sure that the shell was not newer than a 2005 but I was aware that it had 365 tires which meant that it was at least a 2004 or newer shell.The vin number confirmed that it is a 2005 shell and in most buyers opinion that understand our conversions it really is a 2006 conversion.A 2004 Liberty was sold recently which has a 2004 shell,I would think that most buyers would think that they are getting something extra in this case and I would think so also.With almost all converters gone except for a couple the values of the orphan coaches are what the market has decided they are worth.

That 04-04 was me and, in my mind, I priced it in comparison to an '05 Marathon that I knew had recently sold because it's shell was also an '04.

[Ronald Hiemann]

After the shock wore of, I visited the main office of the NH DMV in Concord, NH.
Much to my surprise, very little pleading was required. I presented copies of the previous 2 titles (WI and OH, both documenting 2007) and after the clerk made a call to the titling office, I was instructed to return the 2005 title which had just been mailed to me, to replace it with a 2007 title. I did not waste any time at all and should have my new 2007 title in hand in a few days. As always, thanks for all comments!
Cheers,
Ronald
En route to Toronto for the holidays...

[BoaterAl]

We are pleased with your success and I'm thinking....margaritas and nachos