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Thread: OTR - Prevost Nashville

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Indian Hills
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    1,129

    Default OTR - Prevost Nashville

    Having just completed a 3400 mile trip from Colorado-Oshkosh-Elkhart(RV Hall of Fame)-Knoxville(Jon&Di's)-Prevost Nashville-Sedalia, Mo-Salinas, Ks, we will never know from this trip what OTR is like.

    Yes, we have OTR in the Beaver, but by the time we got to Oshkosh it was cooling weakly. So last Wednesday 27th of July I called Nashville Prevost for a Monday morning appt-Aug 1st telling Keith in Service we are having OTR trouble and that we have an R-12 system. He tells me then, they have lots of R-12 and will scope the system out for leaks and faults.
    We get there using our backup, Genset and 3 Cruise Airs, in the aweful heat as we left Knoxville for Goodlettesville Sunday afternoon July 31st.
    Prevost identifies we have a leaky seal behind the compressor clutch the monring of aug 1st. Presto, new seal installed, only to be told they don't have R-12 to fill us up. They had given it to another customer that came last Friday the 29th after I had made our appointment 2 days prior.
    Dsiappointment doesn't even touch the tip of this melting iceberg.
    Now, they captured 5 pounds from our system before the repair, and would not credit us back a equivalent of 60 bucks a pouind they will invariably pump into to someone's elses system and charge them 60 bucks a pound for our 5 pounds. Rose in Service also told me they couldn't place it a To Go container, and what would the point be in putting the 5 pounds back into our system to yield no benefit?
    Service told us, we could opt of changing fittings on the system and the dryer so they could fill us up with 24 pounds of R-134A, only to be told it will be less efficient in a system designed for R-12, will leak out and must be recharged each and every year here on. This just sucks!! I was so excited to get a full charge of R-12 in our OTR only to be told NO.
    So we headed home 2 days ago from Nashville in 100+ degree heat with the genset trying to power our Cruise Airs to help keep us cool
    Yesterday in Sedalia Missouri (Aug 2nd), it was 110-115, before and after lunch, the Cruise airs were screaming, the generator straining to almost red-hot and our coach interior was 98 degrrees. The dogs were lying in the kitchen on the tire floor, our water bay registered 118 degrees, and we were both sopping wet. All because Prevost Nashvilile, took our coach, fixed a seal, robbed us of what R-12 we had on board, and sent us out the door with no real A/C to travel 1300 miles in temps over 100 degrees.
    We are home, the bus is parked, and I will be going to our more reliable Stewart and Stevenson to have our system charged like Prevost should have. Needless to say, we won't be going near Nashville for service again, unless we bring our own parts. I say this because the Parts dept didn't have a simple static discharge rubber strip in stock.
    Nashville is truly a Palace, but from our experience its window-dressing.
    Last edited by Coloradobus; 08-04-2011 at 09:56 AM.
    Jim and Chris
    2001 Featherlite Vogue XLV 2 slide with Rivets-current coach, 1999 shell
    Previous 22 years,
    We have owned every kind of Prevost shell but an H3-40

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    There are a couple of lessons from Jim's saga.

    Over the years of ownership all of us are going to encounter issues with our AC systems. When we have a problem I have found out getting the problem resolved is more difficult than calling up the local AC repair man.

    The first line of defense I have found is to be alert for potential issues. At the first sign a system does not have a wide spread between the cool air discharge and the return air intake some action should be required. You do not have to be an AC specialist and you do not need any equipment except for an IR temperature gun or two thermometers. At least once a year, preferably prior to the summer measure the discharge and return air and record the readings for every AC. Keep those readings because you not only want to know the information, you also want to add succeeding readings so you can spot changes to indicate a possible future problem. With multiple AC units you can compare their relative performance and a good AC technician can tweak the charge or make adjustments to the expansion valve to extract the best performance.

    As an example if the cool air is blowing into the coach at 65 degrees, and the return air temp is 80 degrees you now have a reference point. You are concerned with the spread. Take the readings after the AC units have been running for a while and not after it has cycled of, but as the compressor is running.

    If you have Cruise Airs you can poke your head in their mounting location and see a sight glass. If you want add what you see to the record. Typically if the CA is running right you will see some bubbles, but you could also see foaming, or clear liquid. You can have three or four CAs to compare so you should see a relationship between what you see in the sight glass and the temperature spread between discharge and return air. The bigger the spread the more efficient the unit is and you can relate that to what you see in the sight glass. A technician loves this kind of data.

    If you have OTR the same temperature readings apply, but you can also take the temps at the suction side and the discharge side of the compressor. Again make sure the system has been run for a while (20 or 30 minutes). If you have an OTR system a good indicator of the proper charge without having gauges is to open the door on the passenger side and look at the lower sight glass in the receiver. The little red float should be in the center of the lower sight glass. That is the liquid level and if it is lower your system may be about to have a failure, and if it higher you may have too much Freon in the system, but without a system check you do not know if things are OK either way. There are other things besides Freon level that determine the system's health, but by recording this sight glass level it is another data point.

    When looking at the receiver, if you have a vintage coach with the twin fans in the floor do not leave the condenser coil door open for more than a few seconds. If you have a vintage with the fans mounted to the condenser door you don't have to worry about how long the door is open.

    If Jim's post doesn't wave a red flag about how important a good AC system is, nothing will. Consider high ambient temps, with driving into the sun, and no matter what you have it is going to struggle to overcome oppressive temps, and as the coach moves through the air it can be akin to heating a roast in a convection oven.

    Some general comments about switching from R12 to 134A. The system must have its oil changed. The two types of refrigerant require different types of oil. A system flush is not a bad thing because AC oil is throughout the system. R12 is a more efficient refrigerant than 134A so when you make the switch some efficiency will be lost. 134A operates at higher pressures so if you are going to the expense of making the change consider replacing the expansion valve(s) and be alert to the fact that hoses and seals that might have worked fine on R12 may have to be replaced. 134A will find leaks not evident on a R12 charge.

    Our OTR systems leak. Everybody involved in the design and production of the systems recognizes that and there is a standard as to what constitutes an acceptable loss rate. Because of this it is prudent to have a professional periodically check the health of the system and the refrigerant charge. Just because your 10 year old coach works fine today, it does not mean you have an acceptable volume of refrigerant. My guess is most of us tend to ignore our AC systems until the preformance is severly deficient, and we can actually monitor them and maintain them easily without AC equipment with a little effort. Don't forget the filters. And if John Klopp posts any information about AC units, pay attention. He is the guru.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    963

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    Wow - that is a horror story. 98 in the bus would have done our dog in.

    Had my OTR serviced before our big trip at Prevost FW. Ours is a 134a system, and I had noticed some oil marks in the area of the compressor pulley and in the condensor bay around a couple of components. System calls for 24 lbs, and they vacuumed out 18 after 2 years since last service. Had a shaft seal replaced and found crimped wiring to the clutch coil in the process. Replaced that as well. System worked great on the trip (67 with 108 ambient).

    I did watch over the tech's shoulder doing the work until about 9 PM. I know he was getting annoyed, but tough shit. I dogged him about the swap on new freon vs the recovered freon, and the total charge. After charging for a while and only showing 20 lbs of freon in the system, he was ready to call it a day. I asked about getting to 24lbs, and he said "we can get these things to cool a bus to 55 degrees in the summer, but this should be good enough." It wasn't for me and we kept working at it for a while longer to get more freon in the system.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    190

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coloradobus View Post
    Having just completed a 3400 mile trip from Colorado-Oshkosh-Elkhart(RV Hall of Fame)-Knoxville(Jon&Di's)-Prevost Nashville-Sedalia, Mo-Salinas, Ks, we will never know from this trip what OTR is like.

    Yes, we have OTR in the Beaver, but by the time we got to Oshkosh it was cooling weakly. So last Wednesday 27th of July I called Nashville Prevost for a Monday morning appt-Aug 1st telling Keith in Service we are having OTR trouble and that we have an R-12 system. He tells me then, they have lots of R-12 and will scope the system out for leaks and faults.
    We get there using our backup, Genset and 3 Cruise Airs, in the aweful heat as we left Knoxville for Goodlettesville Sunday afternoon July 31st.
    Prevost identifies we have a leaky seal behind the compressor clutch the monring of aug 1st. Presto, new seal installed, only to be told they don't have R-12 to fill us up. They had given it to another customer that came last Friday the 29th after I had made our appointment 2 days prior.
    Dsiappointment doesn't even touch the tip of this melting iceberg.
    Now, they captured 5 pounds from our system before the repair, and would not credit us back a equivalent of 60 bucks a pouind they will invariably pump into to someone's elses system and charge them 60 bucks a pound for our 5 pounds. Rose in Service also told me they couldn't place it a To Go container, and what would the point be in putting the 5 pounds back into our system to yield no benefit?
    Service told us, we could opt of changing fittings on the system and the dryer so they could fill us up with 24 pounds of R-134A, only to be told it will be less efficient in a system designed for R-12, will leak out and must be recharged each and every year here on. This just sucks!! I was so excited to get a full charge of R-12 in our OTR only to be told NO.
    So we headed home 2 days ago from Nashville in 100+ degree heat with the genset trying to power our Cruise Airs to help keep us cool
    Yesterday in Sedalia Missouri (Aug 2nd), it was 110-115, before and after lunch, the Cruise airs were screaming, the generator straining to almost red-hot and our coach interior was 98 degrrees. The dogs were lying in the kitchen on the tire floor, our water bay registered 118 degrees, and we were both sopping wet. All because Prevost Nashvilile, took our coach, fixed a seal, robbed us of what R-12 we had on board, and sent us out the door with no real A/C to travel 1300 miles in temps over 100 degrees.
    We are home, the bus is parked, and I will be going to our more reliable Stewart and Stevenson to have our system charged like Prevost should have. Needless to say, we won't be going near Nashville for service again, unless we bring our own parts. I say this because the Parts dept didn't have a simple static discharge rubber strip in stock.
    Nashville is truly a Palace, but from our experience its window-dressing.
    Colorado Bus,

    As an R12 user, I share your grief with R12 dealings with Prevost. Also, as I looked into replacement of the R12 to R134A, the information I got was the same as yours, "it will not preform as well". Hummm, a unknown variable in my book.

    I replace all the R12 hoses on my dash air with R134 barrier type, which is compatible with all refrigerants. After several failed attempts to find leaks at Prevost, I took the job on myself. It was simple, all the hose make up on my bus were replaceable. Meaning the fittings are designed to to be removed and replaced on new hoses. All the AC hose change out did not include the purchase of any new fittings. Only new hose. Also, most of the leaks were in the engine compartment. The heat the engine produces is an enemy of rubber and AC hoses are no exception. After replacement of hoses, I pressure checked with 250 PSI of nitrogen for 3 days to assure all current leaks were repaired. Then, I pulled a vacuum on the system and recharged with R12. The system has worked great since I rebuilt it.

    I order my R12 from Ebay. The last 30 pound cylinder I purchased was $450. Not cheap, but available. You will need to get an HVAC license to purchase the freon. I got my license on line by taking a minor test.

    When I started the process of getting my AC units to function properly, I was very discouraged by what Prevost Service Center had to say. I recall a quoted price of $6,000 back in 2007 to replace my R12 hoses on my dash air with the famous words that "it will not perform as well". A very chilling or in this case "non chilling" thought.

    Do not despair over issues with your R12 AC, like I needlessly did. It is all manageable. You will need to take the time to deal with the issues or get someone else to do the same.

    I am one that thinks Prevost Service Centers are not necessarily "the solution", but in some cases "the problem".

    Colorado Bus, PM me with you contact information and I will call to chat. The R12 issue is not a big deal. You will simply need to have a few alternatives available.

    I posted numerous pictures and details concerning the rebuilding of both of my AC systems. I have tried searching, but the search function does not work well for me. Perhaps some of the search gurus can find the posts.

    Hector

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Jasper
    Posts
    3,775

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    I feel the Bus Boy's pain, my dash A/C compressor gave it up today! Fortunately, roof airs work well and it wasn't a big deal. Trying to get repairs is another matter.

    Called Panterra, sorry no parts, can't help.
    Called Royal Phoenix, sorry, too busy can't help.
    Called Prevost Nashville, see you when you get here, the compressor is on sale!

    Two sides to every story...

    Jim & Chris - I can snag you a 30 lb R-12 container by the time I come to Austin, they have been running about 250.00 in Atlanta. You would have a back up.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers
    Posts
    517

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    Ed says, " we are not important anymore to them". At one time the motorhome was 35% of their business and now we are only 1% to them. We are now just PIA's to them. We don't matter!
    Sorry to hear about your terrible experience, Chris&Jim.
    That sounds like me having to experience Hell Hole Number 1, DETROIT, this week!

    Help!!!

    Sandy
    Sandy
    CaptMogul & Sandy
    2002 Royale XLII D/S
    2013 Toyota Tacoma
    PRAY FOR OUR TROOPS & THEIR FAMILIES

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Houma, LA
    Posts
    1,783

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    Sandy
    Sandy,

    What are you guys doing in Detroit?
    Tuga & Karen Gaidry

    2012 Honda Pilot

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Left Petosky and Ed doesn't know how to drive South without going thru Detroit! As you remember, Ed sold his business of 47 yrs. and still is hoarding things to take back to Key west just to piss me off with junk!
    He can't cut the cord!
    Also, he has 3 children & grandchildren that still live here.
    Tuga, do you think I wanted to vacation here? HA!
    P.S. Tell ur daughter that my daughter,Amanda, is moving now to Italy with her hubby's new orders. I am so depressed over it. Just got them back here from Hawaii/Iraq.
    CaptMogul & Sandy
    2002 Royale XLII D/S
    2013 Toyota Tacoma
    PRAY FOR OUR TROOPS & THEIR FAMILIES

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Indian Hills
    Posts
    1,129

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    truk, let us know when you have found a 30 lb'er. I would be great to have back up. Just went over to the bus to get something out, and see that the rightside rear has sunk to the floor. So, now what did the hot weather do in? Always something, eh?
    Got a note from a Robert Jones at Prevost who was going to send our concerns on for us. I was just emailing off their site.
    Jim and Chris
    2001 Featherlite Vogue XLV 2 slide with Rivets-current coach, 1999 shell
    Previous 22 years,
    We have owned every kind of Prevost shell but an H3-40

  10. #10
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    Jan 2006
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    anytown
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    Jim/Chris, if it is any consolation the leans is not related to the AC issue. But when it rains it seems to pour.

    I got to thinking about your circumstances and have come to the conclusion Prevost owes you some consideration. You went there based on their representation they had the materials to repair your R12 system. They were probably correct in replacing the compressor seal because that is likely the point where it leaked. How much it was leaking is unknown and every single OTR compressor has oil and dirt behind the clutch so you have to trust the judgment of the tech who declared the leak serious enough to require a new seal.

    Where Prevost dropped the ball was in not tagging their supply of R12 as yours as soon as you made the appointment. Where they added insult to injury was in not restoring the R12 they removed back to the system. Now whoever is going to service the system has to pull a vacuum on it (again), leak check it (again) and then add the R12. Had the 5 pounds been put back in, the system would not have worked, but whoever was going to add R12 just had to add it without the added time consuming steps.

    They should be compensated for the seal replacement, but I suspect the added time to vacuum the system and leak check it will offset the cost of the seal and replacement.

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