New or Newer Coach Questions

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Through the years I have seen many would-be owners begin and go through the process of deciding what coach is best for them. While I think we can all agree the appearance is probably a very big part of the equation, and we know a buyer's budget dictates an age range, I wonder if moving up has its benefits.

Our 1987 Liberty was a great coach and we had no intention of getting a new or newer one. A fire which took it out of service for 9 months was all the inspiration we needed to buy our current coach and the improvements in the 10 year newer coach was significant. We got 5 feet more space, better fuel mileage, much greater range, user friendly systems, better fit and finish, and little improvements throughout that in total added up to a much more enjoyable coach.

While I think our vintage coach is in the "sweet" spot (for us anyway) because the chassis is a proven rivet model with an economical engine, easy repairs, proven systems, and less technical complexity I still find myself looking at newer models whose interior and exterior appearances are very desirable. So here are some questions for the brain trust (as this group has been called on occasion) relating primarily to the XLII:

For coaches newer than 2004, what mileage are you getting?
If your coach has slides, and you know their service history, how long do the seals last?
Have the slides been reliable and if there was a problem did you have to go to Prevost?
Have you had issues with bonding of the sides or windows?
If you have power awnings have you had problems?
If you have power shades have you had problems?
Have you had to service the IFS such as replace bushings?

If you had a rivet coach prior to an XLII what are the improvements the XLII has in your opinion that made the extra cost worthwhile?

What feature(s) do you miss on the rivet coach?

What has got me pumped on this topic is almost a week at Prevost for training exposed me to new and newer coaches and while I still have a real appreciation of all the features of my current coach Di and I have been discussing if moving to a new or nearly new coach is a real benefit or simply a way to spend a lot of money with little tangible benefit.

[rfoster]

Jon:

Those 'questions' sound to me like the "fever" to trade is setting in. It happens in the best of families.

We used to call it "MPD" but have not heard that term used lately.

It could be that you are a "Red Blooded Breathing All American" with Human Nature characteristics like the rest of us and you have the urge to trade.

Its ok- most of understand the symptons now and we know what to do to treat them.

Plus the economy needs all the help it can get now.

Go for it. They don't cost much - not.

[jack14r]

Jon,I have had 2 newer than 2004,both of them nave been Liberty's,the 2005 was coach #586 and my current coach is a 2008 is #657.My fuel mileage running 65 in flat land towing a Chevy truck is 6-6.5,as speed goes up to 70 it is more like 5.5,on a trip across the mountains 5.0 to 5.5.I have only one slide issues so far,I am going to Jax on Friday because when the slide is out and it gets wet and I retract it,the in motion light blinks constantly after the slide is in,I must cycle the on off key to get rid of this glitch.I have not had any bonding or window problems with either coach.I have replaced under warranty one Zip-Dee awning motor.No power shade problems or IFS problems.The 2008 has had a charge air cooler,V pod,and a EGR replaced under warranty,the Charge air coolers are a big problem and many have failed,I have discussed this with Prevost and there is not a bullet proof cure yet.We all think that the series 60 is extremely reliable I think that this was absolutely true through the DDEC 3 but I have read and seen many problems with the DDEC 5-6 that make me believe that the Volvo D13 can't be any worse,I hope that the Volvo is better.The later series 60's will not usually strand you just drive you crazy with codes.I have spent 65-72 nights each of the last 4 years in my coaches and besides a total generator failure last year most trips have been uneventful.

[merle&louise]

Jon,

I agree with Roger, it is human nature to want the newest, most innovative coach that your family can afford.

I had a 93 Newell w/o slides. It was a good coach; total electric, no IFS, it held 328 gallons of diesel, and it had a good floor plan for us. Once I saw a slide coach - I wanted one. My 93 had the 8V92 so the slide coach got 35% better fuel economy plus it had more room and an extra bathroom. The fuel range wasn't a big deal to me - I felt the trade off for the slides was more applealing.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the new innovations and floorplan changes outweighed the extra cost incurred.

I would answer your questions as follows:

Slides - no trouble - front gasket 13 years old and rear gasket 5 years old
Windows - no trouble
Power awnings - no trouble
Power shades - I have day/night shades - yes, I did have trouble with them once - the string broke

So I have a trouble free coach with a good floor plan that suits our needs and gets the best fuel economy, but I'm still looking at every XL II that has the colors that I like. I think that they are beatiful and I would love to have one. Financially, I can't afford to own one - but I can still dream.

And I agree with Roger - it sounds like you have the fever! Buy Di that quad-slide Newell that she saw a few years ago. She deserves it!

You can always raise the roof on your garage (or lower the floor) LOL.

[Toy Box]

Jon, I too have thought about getting a newer bus. When I looked at a few 04-06 units, I found the storage smaller, the shore cord was relocated to the storage area behind the right tag, and the extra muffler/radiator/roof exhaust really turned me off. My neighbor down here has a 05 CC with a salon slide. In the two years he has had it, the slide had to be removed twice. Once for slide issues and the second time to replace approx 40% of the exterior panels as they were starting to come loose. All work was done by Prevost in Jax this year. He has told me on more than one occasion he would really like to have his old (1999 45 CC) back. I think I will keep my current unit until the wheels fall off. But I still look at the new ones.

[Kevin Erion]

Jon,
I went from a 99 XLV to a 2001 XLII. I can only say that I enjoy the XLII very much in large part to the larger windows. This change alone makes the inside feel twice the size. Both are non slide so no problems with that. I did have a complete reskin from Prevost due to one very small seperation in one panel, about 3 inches long. This was very generous on Prevost part and I have heard they will no longer be so generous.
I did service the front end and replace bushings, this was at about 110,000 miles. I don't see that as a huge problem, just PM stuff. MPG is not as good as the 99, 6.2 to 6.5 at 65 towing a very heavy pick up truck vs about 7.5 but the price we pay for the things we like.
I have full Gerard power awnings and no problems, as well as no problems with the power shades, which we like very much.
But the other big thing that took me to an XLII was the outside, I like the smooth look and the roof top awnings so I feel the upgrade was worth every dime(thousands) it cost and have no regrets!

[phorner]

Jon,

Although my bus is not in the model year range you are considering, I have had an opportunity to deal with an IFS front suspension which required bushings, and in my case, a ball joint. Due to my limited facilities, I had Prevost replace the upper and lower A arms at a cost of approximately $4,000 if I remember correctly.

Also, we have the Zip Dee power awning, although it is the older "AutoAwn" style. When this awning works properly, it is great. However, it has been a real pain to keep it operating. We are on our third motor (and it may need replacement now..), replaced the control panel, (they have now "updated" them) and have replaced both arms and both rafters. I have spent in excess of $4,000 on this awning. Of course, my coach is considerably older than the ones you are considering.

And, even though I am a regular visitor to Prevost in Jacksonville, I have never, not once, been there when they were not re-skinning an XLII to a certain degree.

All of that being said, if I had the money in hand, I'm sure I would be considering an up-grade to a later model XLII, although I would prefer a non-slide bus which would likely be difficult to find.

And, lastly, I agree with Roger....sounds like MPD symptoms... go for it.... the economy could sure use it!!

Just don't even try to justify it. Can't be done with any of 'em...

[edsaylor]

Jon: I have had an 20 Single Slide, an 05 Double Slide and now an 08 Double Slide. The 02 had to have Slide gasket replaced once and got 6.8 MPG most of the time. I drive 64 MPH or less. The 05 had to have a new awning control board $600+ because of a water leak under the sink in the kitchen. Also Slide pins jerked whole coach when opening. My 08 is coach number 673 Liberty and has the Moritz system. This is outstanding!!! I have one of the last coaches with the exhaust out the side. This coach runs perfectly and I normally get about 6.5 MPG. The slides are perfectly smooth (no pins). Thr power shades on the newer coaches are far superior th the older ones. The older shades had strings that would constantly break. New ones are much better. The windows on my 08 are far superior to the others. I have never had a delam problem. The new awnings work very well, but do not have the support the older ones have if left out in a high wind or heavy rain. The newer coaches with the larger front and tag tires and heavy duty front suspension ride and drive much better than older coaches. All of my Prevost busses have been Liberty's as I think they are much, much better than any other conversions. Unfortunately, with Donna's situation, I do not get to use my coach these days like I used to.

[Gary Carmichael]

Jon, For what it's worth, I am new to the Prevost world. After owning several "Plastic coach's" the 2005 H is our dream coach It is late enough to have a lot of newer things ie heavier front axle, large tires, and thanks to the original owner a lot of upgrades in 2008 Crestron, all electronics, new furniture and all, We have two slides so far no problems, 6-6.5 fuel mileage at 65mph, New batteries and tires last year. I know that we will encounter a problem here and there, but we feel the 2005 is where we need to be now but we will trade for a 2008 at some point. I personally believe the 08 is as good as it gets, just my opinion. Come on down to the rally in Stuart in Feb bring money! Gary

[travelite]

John,

There are folks over on the www.dieselenginetrader.com Detroit forum who have removed the EGR on DDEC V engines. Over-the-road truckers frequently complain about the engine's driveability especially at lower rpm. They've been told by DD to keep the revs up around 1700 which kills fuel mileage. Drivers complain that the engine loses power and backfires. DD throws parts at them, VNT turbos and Vpods, but have pretty much stated that the engine was never supposed to be EGR equipped and it is what it is. The cough isn't technically a backfire; DD says it's turbulence in the intake system caused by an EGR valve abruptly closing at low rpm due to low EGR flow rates. Removing the EGR entails an ECU reflash (EGR delete and VNT turbo delete), new exhaust manifold and turbo, plus labor. Very tempting.