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Thread: House Battery Run Time

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Monroe
    Posts
    221

    Default House Battery Run Time

    My coach has two (2) Trace 3000 watt 12 volt inverters and six (6) 8D batteries with (2) RC7 remote control panels mounted over the windshield along with other stuff. When scrolling through various informational items contained in the displays, one display will show 25.5 hours of runtime while the other display will show just 6 hours of run time. As various appliances go on or off (refrigirator, microwave, cooktop etc) the display wii indicate various runtimes for the circuits each appliance is connected to. No problem. While at Russel coach several months ago I had Rob ck. and verify how the batteries were connected and ck there condition. I (on my own) assumed that the display showing 25.5 Hrs. runtime must have 6 batteries connected to it and the other 2 must be connected to the 2nd. display. Sounded good to me, maybe wrong! While the coach was with Xtreme Paint & Graphics having Nick Hessler go over all my CC electrical stuff, I asked him about this. Nick said that both inverters use all the batteries together. I didn' think that was correct since the displays show different runtimes. I am not far from replacing the batteries since they are approaching six (6) years of age. My thought was to add two (2) additional batteries to the inverter running the refrigirator so as to get a longer runtime for dry camping. If Nick is correct, why would CC not have kept the battery banks seperated and also why dual controls? Are alot of other coaches setup this way? Any Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Wilsonville, OR 97070
    Posts
    852

    Default

    Charles I have read your post three times where are the other two batteries located? I read only 6 batts.

    I have 8 4D's in one bank and three inverters connected to them and all three inverters have a monitor each. The monitor are also controls for the inverters.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Jasper
    Posts
    3,775

    Default

    Charles,

    My RG7s are set up as the primary and slave. All functions are controlled by the primary including gen auto-start and the 2nd remote (slave) is used for a battery fuel gauge and monitoring the user selected functions. You can easily change the setup or reverse the primary and slave control. I have 5 batteries wired in parallel and my inverters are are 3000's.

    Let me know when your ready for batteries.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Monroe
    Posts
    221

    Default

    Thanks for the replys. Greg, I only have 6 batteries at this time but wii add 2 more when I replace them.

    Tom I will call u win I am ready. So I assume that both inverters draw from all batteries if so, why the difference in run time? My controls seem to be as u say, a master & slave. Most of the tme I can get about 28 hrs. runtime before the Gen auto starts. Also my inverter controls do not have an AGM battery selection and shore power selection only goes to 30amps. As always, everything in my CC is working fine. I will call Xantrex about the parameters in my controls and if there might be a software upgrade to add parameters to them. Thanks guys.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Penetang
    Posts
    117

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    I am not sure how your inverters are set up. In order to get run time you must have shunts ( that measures amps) on the ground side of your battery wiring to measure the draw on the batteries as well as the charge that replenishes them. In order to get an accurate number the amp hours of the batteries must be input in to the monitor. If you show a different run time on each inverter it would be reasonable to assume that there are two banks of batteries, each of which are drawn from and charged separately.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    507

    Default

    CharleseBrownJr, I have your identical setup in my '02 Wanderlodge LXi. Both inverters are connected to all 6 batteries, and both inverter's built-in chargers charge the battery bank. Lee's correct about the shunt. In order to get accurate battery fuel gauge information you need an external shunt - Xantrex sells a kit for this. Once the external shunt is installed, and it may already be installed, you need to go to the RC7's and alter the configuration. On the RC7 that controls the inverter that's connected to the external shunt you configure: External Shunt 'This Inverter'. You then configure the other inverter to: External Shunt 'Other Inverter'. This means only the inverter connected to the external shunt will provide accurate battery fuel gauge readout.

    Each inverter has its own internal shunt on the ground terminal, but in the absence of the external shunt, each inverter will report only what it consumes; i.e., only it's local view of the world.
    Last edited by travelite; 07-13-2011 at 08:50 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Clearwater
    Posts
    231

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    A lot of coaches have dual inverters connected to a common battery bank. A bank of 6 or 8 large house batteries (like 4D or 8D) need the added charge capacity of the second charger to minimize recharge time, even if you don't need the extra inverter capacity. Each inverter needs a remote panel for setup and configuring correctly to the battery type to which they are connected. The reason the batteries were not separated is for customer convenience. When at Vogue in the early 90's, we did about a 1 year worth of coaches with separate battery banks (one dedicated to running a refrigerator), and ended up connecting them together at a later date for longer "dry camping" time for the customers. With the batteries connected all together, creating a large single bank, the customer has the versatility and option to keep a refrigerator running a lot longer before needing to run the generator simply by turning loads off. With the bank split up into refrigerator-dedicated batteries and then "regular house batteries", the option of using all the batteries to run the fridge does not exist, even if the owner choses to reduce loads in an effort to reduce generator run time/increase the length of time between recharges. The fridge will run an average of 1/3 of each hour, regardless of if you watch television or not, use lights or not. In situations like that, the "house batteries" could be at 80% capacity, while the "refrigerator bank" is in need of a recharge. In addition, dual banks make alternator choice more restrictive (needing a regulator with "external voltage sense") since an isolator would be required. All this adds up to making the system more complex, with more parts to fail, and actually increases generator run time overall.

    The Trace Engineering RV-series inverters had internal shunts between the battery negative and ground posts on the back of the inverter. When using two together, there was an External Shunt Kit available to wire up to one of the inverters. The inverter with the hardwiring of the exteral ground shunt was supposed to be set up as "External Shunt: this inverter" and would, in turn, show the "battery fuel gauge" as it was termed by Trace. The inverter without the shunt pigtail connected to it was to be set up as "External Shunt: Other Inverter" and would no longer show in the user menu the "battery fuel gauge" at all (it wouldn't be accurate anyway).
    This series of inverters was unique with the shunt and "fuel gauge" feature, but it was never as accurate as hoped because to be a true indication of battery run time left, the load on the batteries and inverter would have to remain constant without any loads added or taken away. This is a difficult situation to obtain in an RV, with fridge compressor cycling on and off, water pump cycling on and off, etc, etc, etc. I had to tell a lot of customers to simply take the indication with a "grain of salt" and let your auto start feature take care of the batteries, instead of letting the gauge readings make you crazy, lol.

    As far as charging and inverting, each Trace RV-series inverter operates independently. There really is no "primary" or "secondary" inverter. There are many factors that effect the dynamic in determining which one will finish a charge cycle first. The inverter that goes to float first does so because of what is "sees" as a result of battery cabling length/voltage drop, length of time at a certain "acceptance" current amount going to the batteries, and the 120vac loads it has for pass-thru (this effects if the inverter has cut back it's charge current in response to the input breaker size). All twin inverter systems will have one inverter drop to float first, then the other will finish up and eventually drop to float as well. If the inverters were installed to the optimum, the battery cable lengths, both Pos (+) cables are exactly the same length, and both Neg (-) cables are exactly the same, but all are as short as possible.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by BenC; 07-21-2011 at 05:18 PM. Reason: Added charging explanation.
    Ben Cummings
    U.S.A. Luxury Coaches, LLC
    Clearwater, FL

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Monroe
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    Hey Ben, Thanks for the input. I understand the concepts now.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    507

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    Whew... well that was easy, thanks Ben.
    Last edited by travelite; 07-21-2011 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Spelling

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Brooksville, Fl. & Franklin, N.C.
    Posts
    1,600

    Default

    Thanks Ben, I enjoyed reading that.

    99 Country Coach 45XL
    Jeep Liberty

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