EGR Lesson: Bad news in my opinion

[aggies09]

Before I begin, I will let everyone know that I am not a gear head. Most of my engine experiences and subsequent knowledge were learned because I had to. Usually to try to understand some problem that had happened or was about to happen. This is usually the basis of my understanding. That is why I am always in awe of Jon, Jdub, Truk, and several others on this site that have a keen grasp of the technicalities related to such matters which is also what makes POG so valuable to me.

I just learned this week what an EGR is. I had seen several comments stating this or that about EGR but had no real grasp about what it did.

I was pulling a 16' cargo trailer with a Ford F250 diesel pickup. After a couple of hundred miles I started losing power but was still running. As I pulled into the next town I was pouring white smoke. Not good. My first thought was, it is hot, although gauge did not read as such, and I have blown a head gasket (previous experience). After turning the truck off and turning the key back on, now my gauge pegged out HOT. After a helpful soul stopped and said he had some experience with this particular engine, I filled all reservoirs up with antifreeze, restarted the engine, and headed on home. Ran flawlessly all the way home (another 100 miles). Upon trying to start again, once all had cooled down, the engine would not start, resulting in a tow to the shop. The diagnosis was that the "EGR cooler" had failed. This failure resulted in my antifreeze and associated fluids being dumped in on top of the pistons. Not good. The diesel tech that worked on my truck explained how all of this was to comply with gov't regs, no offense Loc, in order to cool the exhaust that was being pumped back into the engine instead of being released out of the exhaust system as has been the standard before the EPA started trying to help us. The tech's opinion was that the diesel pickups were simply not as useful or reliable as they once were and were certainly costly to maintain. This EGR cooler looked like a piece of 1.5" square tubing with a radiator built inside of it. This immediately made me think of how that was going to apply to buses and obviously it will be the same as the pickup market.

Jon told me one time that once I really understood all that I really had in my vintage '97 Liberty that I would become very comfortable with the amount of coach that I had for the money. As regulations force technology to change and manufacturers struggle to figure all of this out, I think I may stick with the ol '97 for a few more years.

[garyde]

Its been decades since anyone could do diagnostics on their own auto. Now the same is happening to the diesel. Sensors, & computers have been added for fuel efficiency and pollution control sacrificing easy repair.

[gmcbuffalo]

My Excursion when I got it would get 22 MPG on the open road. Each time I took it to Ford for a Oil change they reflashed the Fuel Module and I got worst mileage. EGR delete kits are a big topic on the Ford-truck.com forum. It is boiling down to the Coolant being used. Silicate drop out in the Ford Gold and some people recommending CAT ELC

[Coloradobus]

Lesson leaned, stay away from the dang Oficial service centers for common items like oil changes. 8V's RULE!!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

As much as I like simplicity and detest complexity for the sake of complexity our engines of today are longer lasting, more fuel efficient and significantly more reliable than any we have ever had. I am talking only about gasoline powered engines. Spark ignition engines.

The folks in our government who write regulations apparently think the success with gas engines can be carried over to diesel engines and I believe we are going backwards and will continue to go backwards until technology is refined and further developed to attain the standards imposed. We saw exactly the same situation in the early days of engines that had tacked on devices such as air pumps to meet the standards of that day.

What makes today's situation worse is the complexity of the technology is such that few mechanics truly understand it and the bottom line is everybody is struggling to get thru this. On diesel forums professional drivers are screaming about problems with thier engines and the difficulty they are experiencing trying to get the engines to produce power or run properly. I don't agree with Jim about 8V's ruling, but I would rather have an 8V than a new EGR engine that needs urea additive. I love my DDEC III Series 60 and its reliability and fuel mileage.

[truk4u]

I'm with you Tony, older is mo better!

That's why Jon still uses a bag phone.

[merle&louise]

Will our series 60 engines ever be forced into retirement for environmental reasons by the government?

I guess a better question would be, will our presnet engines ever be forced to be "adapted" to the current requirements?

[phorner]

Tuga,

As sad as it is to say it, I wouldn't rule anything out as far as government regulation goes.

In NJ, I purchased a new Colt AR-15 rifle at my local gun dealer, using my official, State of New Jersey issued firearms purchaser ID card. This rifle was registered and purchased in compliance with every legal requirement at the time.

A few years later, with a new governor in Trenton, that rifle was outlawed. As an owner, my ONLY choice was to turn it in to law enforcement for "destruction".

One day you're a law abiding citizen and the next a potential felon, just with the stroke of a pen.

No "grandfathering", no compensation, no relief of any kind. In fact, I couldn't even legally transport the rifle for sale out of the state. I couldn't imagine any government entity doing this to a law abiding citizen, yet surely it did.

So, when you ask about the "government" forcing something upon the citizens.... well, can you say "health care"...?

[merle&louise]

Paul,

You know I think that I remember Ed Saylor telling me that Pat Peck bought his present Liberty because it was one of the last units available without the new ERG technology. He didn't want that engine in his coach.

So if the only engines available in the future are ERGs it seems like the market would put a premium on older coaches.

N'est pas!

[joelselman]

I've heard with the federal tax incentives, you'll be able to effectively convert your antiquated S60 equipped dinosaur to a plug-in electric hybrid soon.