Prevost Service records

[HarborBus]

Michael, I see you have been working on this project since August 31st. Don't get me wrong you have done the right thing in getting several bids as the work your having done is substantial. As I step back and look at your situation I just think it's BS to have to go to such lengths to get work done on our buses. One of the reasons I bought a bus was the ability to have them worked on by the manufacturer of the chassis and the peace of mind that should go along with that. I get the impression that it used to be that way, but as time goes on it seems to be going in the wrong direction. Maybe they just don't want to work on the older ones so they are pricing use out.

[Alek&Lucia]

Michael,

I totally agree with Jon: support our sponsors.
I would always choose somebody that is fully equipped and insured, and has trained knowledge to do any job on our buses.
With your job there is no cutting corners, go with reputable shop.

Alek

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gary asked about how often suspension work has to be addressed and he mentions his mileage.

This is anecdotal so everyone needs to verify what I am saying and develop a plan for maintenance that fits their needs.

The suspension systems essentially consist of ride height valves, air springs (air bags), a number of Norgren spool valves and a manifold with solenoid valves. From my experience these do not need service as a result of miles, but moreso due to aging of rubber components. So for my purposes I will replace all valves (except ride height valves) and all air bags every ten years. I will replace the solenoid valves as needed, and I will replace the ride height valves as needed.

I have specifically not addressed IFS components because I don't have one, and at this point I am not sure anyone knows what the life will be for the bushings. I suspect that as needed will be the rule of thumb with inspections every 5000 miles when routine lubeing is done.

The above works for me. Obviously each owner needs to determine what will be best for his coach.

[charlesebrownjr]

Thanks Gary, italked to Eddie a few moments ago and will take my coach over there this weekend. I had good luck with these guys while at Boddy Gregg so I will give them a shot!!!

[michaeldterry]

Michael, I see you have been working on this project since August 31st. Don't get me wrong you have done the right thing in getting several bids as the work your having done is substantial. As I step back and look at your situation I just think it's BS to have to go to such lengths to get work done on our buses. One of the reasons I bought a bus was the ability to have them worked on by the manufacturer of the chassis and the peace of mind that should go along with that. I get the impression that it used to be that way, but as time goes on it seems to be going in the wrong direction. Maybe they just don't want to work on the older ones so they are pricing use out.

Yeah Elliot - I've taken my own sweet time in getting this project spec'd, researched, organized and done for a few reasons. First and foremost reason is because I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer and it's takes me some time and a lot of research to be sure of what I'm doing! Next, given the importance and size of this project, it was crucial to balance the need/desire to save money with making certain that I chose a qualified, motivated, adequately equipped vendor to perform the work. Third, I hoped to be able to choose a vendor reasonably close to me geographically for convenience and being able to keep an eye on the job as needed. Finally, I wanted to learn as much as possible in the process to carry forward for future reference.

With the help and guidance of POG members, chiefly Jon Wehrenberg, I feel good about the time I took to research the project and am comfortable with the vendor I chose to complete the work.

I'll gladly report back and disclose any mistakes/errors in judgment that become evident as the project is underway and post completion as I have no pride/ego. Yeah - that's the ticket!

[Orren Zook]

Jon, I believe that you are also correct on the time frame of 10 years (maybe the miles too) for the IFS rebuild too, I rebushed mine this past summer, because of age cracking in the bushings. And Michael, was that $13k higher than the next bidder correct? WOW! How can Prevost qualify that number? When I was at their JAX facility in June the only 'new' seated coaches were Volvo's - maybe we are destined to become stepchildren in the grand scheme of things .... After the parts you have purchased are your costs in line with the labor that the service provider you have selected will be in line with your projected costs?

[michaeldterry]

Jon, I believe that you are also correct on the time frame of 10 years (maybe the miles too) for the IFS rebuild too, I rebushed mine this past summer, because of age cracking in the bushings. And Michael, was that $13k higher than the next bidder correct? WOW! How can Prevost qualify that number? When I was at their JAX facility in June the only 'new' seated coaches were Volvo's - maybe we are destined to become stepchildren in the grand scheme of things .... After the parts you have purchased are your costs in line with the labor that the service provider you have selected will be in line with your projected costs?

Yes Orren - they were almost $13,000 higher than the next bidder! And yes, the total costs for parts and labor are well within the median with my selected service provider.

[HarborBus]

OK Michael, you promised to tell everyone who you finally chose to do your work..........................so who is it?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jon, I believe that you are also correct on the time frame of 10 years (maybe the miles too) for the IFS rebuild too, I rebushed mine this past summer, because of age cracking in the bushings. And Michael, was that $13k higher than the next bidder correct?

Orren,

My guesstimate that I used to determine a ten year life for my suspension components was based solely on personal experience and other similar anecdotal evidence. I know of three air bag failures at the ten year point that three POG members including me experienced. One was from rust and corrosion at the bottom metal cannister, and the other two were leakages of the air bags due to dry rot and cracking. I suspect the environment plays a role, with heat and exposure to drying playing a role which is why some folks have never had a failure in 15 years and others failing sooner.

I also suspect on the IFS that the same factors come into play as you have said.

I can speak a little about the costs knowing the extent of what Michael wants done on his coach. I will only speak in terms of my personal experiences and how my times compare to what Volvo is currently charging. I have changed fours sets of air bags, none of which was done as fast as possible, but was done at a steady pace. The steers and tags are easily done in under an hour and depending on the coach (XLIIs are easier) the drive axle air bags will take longer. I use a 10 hour total time as a good number. I know that can be beat but that estimated hours keeps the math simple. The last number I heard from a POG member was Volvo priced the replacement of air bags at $4400, and assuming all air bags cost $142 each ($1136 total) that leaves roughly $3250 for labor.

I believe Volvo uses similar ratios in pricing labor so I can understand how there can be that spread between a shop that quotes $100 or $125 an hour and bases the quote on the hours I experienced. I think anyone that has replaced air bags will agree they can all be replaced by one person is a hard day. Volvo has more overhead, I presume they consider every moment from driving the coach into the shop until it is driven back out to be billable so I can understand their pricing models.

A smaller shop, especially one where the owner is on the shop floor is going to run very efficiently so the difference on the same tasks is going to be similar to my air bag example above.

I think Volvo sees POG members as nasty bitchy owners, and I think we are somewhat upset at Volvo because when we are charged prices at their level our expectations are so high that we as owners will accept nothing less than efficiency and perfection. I wish we could go back to the days when we dealt with Prevost, but that is apparently not going to happen. So the bottom line is we either suck up the pricing Volvo charges, or as owners we develop our own service companies, working with them as partners which is the way it used to be. I used Prevost exclusively for the first 4 or 5 years of ownership and Prevost was superb. But policies change and we as owners have to accept those changes or move on.

I will let Michael speak to his specific situation. I just wanted to explain how I see the pricing variation you noted.

[charlesebrownjr]

John's sentiments are right on. As I stated in my previous reply, I have never been dissatisfied with the quality of work at any of the Prevost facilities it is mainly a matter of time consumed to perform the various task. For instance, today they started replacing my muffler. I had a different muffler installed in FL last week by one of our sponsors who did the work in about 3 hours. By the time I got back to LA, I realized it was too loud especially with the jake brake operating and the welds on the tip we installed all broke and the bottom came off and is now part of the I 10 median some where.
I left Prevost a 7:20 to come spend the night at my son's and they were just about to get through with the exception of putting on a new tip I got in Coburn, OR. at some place who chooses not to be one of our sponsors. I would really like to see if some of our sponsors will do as John suggest and communicate with the group about what kinds of service can be done at there facilities. Maybe we could form a committee to gather the information from the various vendors. Maybe if enough of the sponsor were in key locals we could set up so called regional shops. As John has stated, we need to support these people if they are going to support us. Prevost labor rate is $106.00 per HR. I don't have a problem with that, I just want my coach worked on and not sitting in the camp yard with me laying on the couch watching TV. I want everybody I do business with to make a profit on the work performed because I feel if they make a profit on my work they will take care of me when I come back and (so to speak) be glad to see me coming. I have been in a couple of very heavy service businesses that relied on servicing customers and equipment and not making a profit was not fun.
Sorry for the length of post but I feel all of this needs to be talked about. Thanks all