Extended Coolant Alternative - Real or Snake Oil

[truk4u]

This company claims an alternative to ELC without draining or replacing your coolant and meets EC-1. It appears you just add this Final Charge, change out your coolant filter to a blank and your good to go 6 years or 600,000 miles.

Any words of wisdom from the brain trust?

http://www.finalcharge.com/converter.html

PS - A lot of folks on another forum have been using this for some time.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

You know this is coming......is there any documentation to show Detroit Diesel has approved this? Conceptually I like what they claim. But I am not prepared to risk an engine.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Just to clarify my previous remarks, look at the page that shows testing http://www.finalcharge.com/fleet_tested.html and note very carefully that it does not say it was approved by DD. The key is in the wording.

If I read it right it says they ran an engine 600,000 miles and no signs of cavitation, but nowhere does it say any manufacturer has specifically approved or endorsed the use of the product.

The cynic that I am would say that since I chew gum and never had my tonsils out that gum chewing prevents tonsilitis. That's a parallel to their claims. I want to see specific proof that Detroit Diesel approves the use of the product for extending the life of the coolant.

[Orren Zook]

Right on Jon - I'd be curious to see the Detroit Diesel liner cavitation reports on the extended service interval quoted.

[gmcbuffalo]

Maybe they are found out what the secret additive is to the ELC coolant and are just selling that, the rest is coloring and water.
Greg

[johnklopp]

SNAKE OIL... Water alone is one of the best heat transfer agents available. However water alone will not prevent freezing below 32 degrees F or boiling at 212 degrees F assuming sea level pressures and will not lubricate seals, prevent corrosion and cavitation.

Modern heat transfer fluids almost without exception are water based and have a variety of additives selected based on the temperatures, type of block, hoses, gaskets etc. Engine manufacturers spend millions on selecting the right combinations to determine the maximum recommended life of a component or systems. To simply remove or change the formulation based on unsubstantiated information would be foolish even if the new stuff was free.

John

[gmcbuffalo]

Do you think the engine manufacturers are engineering coolant or are they making engines that accept the available coolant already out there?
Greg

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This is solely a guess, but I suspect the engine manufacturers design their engines to meet the demands of the market place and the certification standards such as the EPA requirements. If the engine requires fluids with certain qualities they then seek companies that can develop or supply those fluids.

All of these inter-related products (engines, oil, coolant, etc) are always evolving. Way back when engines used straight weight oils, then multi-viscosity oils, and now complex formulations of multi-weight oils with additives to serve many purposes. I suspect as the engine is being developed the engineers designing the engine are working closely with the engineers that develop the fluids.

Look at how many cars today are requiring synthetic 5W30 oils. Not too many years ago it was unheard of to use viscosities lower than 30 weight, and then only in the winter months. Like oils coolants are getting complex with manufacturers such as GM having very specific requirements for their coolants.

The only exception is the government, such as California that demands gasoline meet specific standards requiring engines to be designed to operate on fuels which meet those standards. A parallel is the low sulphur fuels we now have to use in engines that were not designed to use those fuels.

[truk4u]

Well boy's, I think there is more to this Final Charge product. It is on a DD approved list right along with Chevron Texaco ELC and many others.

http://extranet.detroitdiesel.com/Su...int_93K217.asp

I don't care one way or the other, but it appears there is a much better cost alternative to dumping your non ELC coolant for a complete coolant change.

John Klopp - If it's snake oil, please explain how you dispute the above DD approved list. The inhibitor technology (OAT) is the same as Texaco ELC.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Oh Sagatious one..........I see the coolant that Old World sells but not a single listing for the converter.

My aged eyes may not work properly. Splain to me where the converter is listed. I'm all for saving a few bucks and have been known to install Chinese tires to do so, but the magic converter stuff is not listed as DD approved.