Smaller Aux Generator wanted

[dalej]

This is the web site of the Yanmar generator that I thought I was going to get. http://www.generatorjoe.net/product....1&1=556&3=1506
I'll let you know about Thermo King's model when I find it......found it! http://www.thermoking.com/tripac/ 
Talked to them on the phone this morning. Priced around $8000 installed. Includes heat and air, 65
amp alt. Connects to the Detroit to keep it warm in winter. Seems like a good unit except its doubling
up on our systems. So a small gen set is probably going to be the answer. Yanmar makes the engine for
this unit.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

First, I need to correct something. I stated a 1 GPH fuel flow, and my brain was processing 20 HP instead of 20 KW. The actual heavily loaded fuel flow will be 1.8 GPH as Jeff B. posted.

I do stick with my assertion that the fuel consumed is related to the load and our 15 to 20 KW generators are not as inefficient to run as is thought.

Installing a second generator may give the bus owner a feeling of satisfaction, but there is a whole lot to doing it. Problems to be considered that have been addressed in our current installations are noise suppression, vibration, safety devices, finding adequate space, and the cost versus benefit.

I can't speak about other coaches, but I could not find any space on my coach suitable for a generator installation, especially in the engine compartment. When I consider the investment we all have in our coaches I find it odd that we tend to ignore depreciation and the cost of the invested capital, but we fret over a few gallons of diesel fuel.

[Kevin Erion]

Give Jim at Martin Diesel a call, he my be able to help. He manufactures all diffrent size generators and also has a bus so he understands what you want to do.
419-782-9911

[MangoMike]

Jeff,
I can respond to that pix from the Rally as it was the Mango Mothership.

That compartment houses the webasto and it's pretty darn full so no room there.

I did find this new offering from Kohler 5kw, air cooled.



http://www.kohlerpowersystems.com/1147042085605.html

Mike

[truk4u]

I must be missing something here. We have generators big enough to run several houses, are designed to run in excess of 20,000 hrs. (according to Kohler), are quiet, uses a small amount of fuel and you guys want to add another one!

Kohler told me the biggest problem they have is little use and low hours. They also told me not to worry about the load, as long as there is some consumption of 110 volt power, lights, frig, charger, TV, fans, etc.

So do your generator a favor and run it long and often... Or like Harry said, use solar panels and run off the inverter. I have a friend with a new Beaver who has 6 solar panels that generate about 24 amps. Now thats a good deal.

[Jeff Bayley]

Regarding the fuel costs, I just want to reiderate two points. I'm full time and I prefer to find my own parking instead of RV parks. Not becuase of costs but because of superior locations. I also don't tow a car and I like to park near the things I want to see and do. Hence, not being a weekend warrior, the fuel can add up.

I'm seeing referrals (thank you) to nice gen small diesel sets that are nice but pricey. I think the only way this makes sense is to spend under $1,500 to $2,000 or else the cost of the revision outrunds the savings and practicallity in my math. Anyone know of a compact gen that might fit the bill ? I know it won't last or a jillion hours but to large degree this is a test anyhow.

Jeff

[Petervs]

Hey Foontoon ( Jeff Bayley) ! Stop acting like you own a Winnebago! That means get over this crazy plan of a little generator, and while you are at it, remove the ladders and bicycles you have hanging on the back of your coach!

Now that I have your attention, let me explain. Your plan has many faults in the design, and in the end will not really save you any money besides. The problems as I see them:

1. Your 17.5 kw gen burns much less fuel than you think while it is only powering one AC and the fridge. I challenge you to setting up a test run with a one gallon can of diesel as the fuel supply, just feed it right to the generator fuel pump. Then turn on the AC and the fridge, turn off everything else, and see how long it goes till the fuel runs out. I bet it will be over 3 hours. Then you will know what the fuel consumption really is when the generator is lightly loaded. Post the results so we will all know, please.

2. One AC needs at least a 4 kw generator to allow it to start. So a 2500 or 3000 watt unit will be too small. Go back to the old one AC rv's from the 1970's and the smallest gen that would run it was a 4kw, some even had a 6.5kw. When you look at those little Honda 2000 watt units, wow they are quiet but they are also way to small to run an AC. Invalid comparison.

3. A gas or diesel generator that is air cooled will require some interesting mounting details to allow it not to overheat. And it will make near as much noise as the well muffled big one in your coach. The little ones come with instructions to set it out in the open air for good cooling.

4. Your big gen while lightly loaded should not generate very much heat in the turbo or anywhere, so the risk of a fire should be no more than with a small genny.

5. If you are full timing, why do you hang out in hot climates where you need AC at night? Good grief, go find a coooler place to hang your shingle.

6. Your proposed wiring plan leaves much to be desired from a safety point of view. If you can sleep over that method, you should be able to sleep with the gen running.

7. A small diesel or gas generator will burn as much fuel per hour ( almost) as a larger one running at an equal reduced load. If they are both putting out, say 3500 watts steady,the only difference would be the running friction on the bigger one is a little higher because it is larger. But it is a very very small amount of work difference. A small diesel will be way more efficient than a small gas unit. The difference in fuel used would not be more than a gallon a day in my estimation, so the payback on the cost of the second system would be measured in decades.

One final comment about Jon Wehrenberg. Both for his invite to me to post on this topic, and for his answers on this topic, I have to give Jon an A in POG for the day. He is on the right track and has been paying attention in class.

As always, anyone is welcome to let me have it if they think I am wrong, but I prefer factual details to innuendo and slander. And I am really looking forward to the results of the fuel consumption test outlined above. We could even do it at the next POG if someone has not done it by then.

Peter VS
94 Marathon XLV

[MangoMike]

Peter,
What ever you do - don't hold back, just let it all out. We can now divert attention from Lew.

but I prefer factual details to innuendo and slander.
Since when is this group goint to start confusing people with facts.

I would also be interested in seeing the fuel usage test.

Mike

[Coloradobus]

foontoon,

If you want to run one A/C unit with an auxillary genset, you will need at least 4000 watts for compressor startup, 3000-3500 won't handle it.(Honda 3000 )
Yamaha makes a 3, but has a battery boost backup for compressor strain.
We use 2 Honda's iin tandem (only manufacturer to allow this) with a special power pack that ties the two together,.During a test at the dealer, this pair of 2000 obtained a strained output of 48 amps.(both units were obviously staining hard to keep running, they were both jumping up and down off the ground complaining). and kept going to keep the A/C short cycle compressor to continue. We use this set-up boondocking in our Airstream trailers that are equipped with Carrier 15,000 btu A/C units. We tried the Honda 3000. It was big bulky, and heavy and COULDN'T handle a quick cycle on the compressor. Its STALLED!! almost everytime. Under ordinary startup, the stall was random and not a trustworthy unit. These small units as said above are air cooled, so you will have to set them outside the coach secured in some fashion so they don't walk off.
While in our "H", we ALWAYS run the generator (Kohler 20KW) ALL night when stopping at camp WAL MART. The cost of the Honda Paired unit vs the amount of fuel you are using in the Power Tech is no contest. The Honda 2000's plus power pack will set you back $2,400.00 .At $3.00 a gallon, that will buy you 800 gallons of diesel for the Power Tech. Using the figures above of 1-2 gallons per hour (which is excessive) of diesel used in the Power Tech, that's 400 to 800 hours of genset use. Our previous coach, 2002 XLII Marathon, we ran the generator in Yellowstone, 12 hours a day for 9 days, we used about about 28 to 32 gallons running at least 2 cruise airs, frig, and other electronics you can't turn off. Its hard to come up with a concrete consumption rate while using the Webasto as well.
The coach's generators are somewhat over kill for the coach, but the healthiest for coach's electronics. Nothing kills our coach's electronics like low, or bad voltage. I think you are asking for BIG trouble. We just had a low voltage reprogramming problem corrected at Marathon last month....OUCH$$$$$$$

If you want to spend some good money on your Power Tech system, add a fire suppressant/alarm system to give you piece of mind sleeping with it on
Good luck

[truk4u]

Peter,
What's your take on the dual output framulator? You have one on your Marathon you know.