New member from Florida with questions

[Ray Davis]

If you look back in the threads far enough, you'll find my saga of my first bus, a 40 foot (non-slide) with 3 cruise airs and the country coach OTR system. Coming from Salt Lake City heading towards Las Vegas at mid day (late June), the outside temp was well over 110. My compressor seized on the CC OTR, so I fired the generator and turned on the three cruise airs. As Jon mentioned, cruise airs get their air intake from down low, front of the bus. So, while driving, I'm guessing that the road temp was in excess of 140 degrees in the desert. Within an hour, all three cruise airs shut down on thermal overload. I limped in to Vegas, putting ice cubes in wet towels and wiping ourselves down as we drove.

My current bus has Prevost bus air, and 4 roof airs. A recent trip to Arizona over July 4th weekend it was 105 outside. With the bus air going, my wife was wearing a jacket inside the coach. However, when parked in the 110 degree heat of Arizona, 4 roof tops barely kept up with the heat, basically running 24/7.

Just FYI.

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Finally we are getting some open discussion about how well the various AC options work. Usually the discussion tends to folks defending what they have. OTR based solely on the numbers is going to cool and keep cool significantly better than any other option. That is not debateable. While being used OTR cools the entire coach so after a long day of driving you will not have to crawl into a heat soaked bed because while driving all the available AC was dedicated to the front of the coach.

OTR is going to be more and more difficult to find because as coaches get more slides the converters are just not going to be able to offer OTR because of ducting issues. Even a one slide coach loses the ducting along the windows on the portion that slides. Even with a no slide coach OTR is a challenge to converters because in addition to dealing with the floor plan and cabinetry, consideration must be given to ducting and balancing the air flow. It is so much simpler for a converter to just stick a bunch of roof or Cruise Airs on the coach and BS the customers about how much more storage space you get and how you don't lose all the HP driving the big compressor. (I'll bet every single time you mention to a salesman you want OTR those arguments against it will be repeated.)

But while Cruise Airs and roof airs have their advantages one of the facts of life is that neither is perfect and like most things on the conversions the choice is a compromise. When buying a coach it is the converter who makes the decision based on how they have their systems set up so a buyer of a coach who decides on the systems they want has also in effect chosen the converter.

With rare exception if a buyer wants an OTR coach it is going to be a Liberty. If the buyer wants an OTR coach with roof airs it is probable it will be one of the rare non-Liberty OTR coaches and those on the market can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand with three or four missing.

I think the issue of price should be examined before making a blanket statement that the Liberty coaches carry a higher price. Maybe they do. Maybe not. What is important is recognizing that the purchase of a single slide OTR coach is not going to be cheap no matter who converted it, and if the object is to buy the cheapest coach it may mean giving up OTR. Then as an owner you get to experience what has been expressed here about marginal cooling. I cannot think of anything worse than to spend serious money for a coach that does not perform as a "million dollar" coach is expected to perform. Might as well buy a plastic one. I am heavily biased toward Liberty because I have over 20 years of ownership now and I am still in awe of their reliability and ease of working on one. It doesn't hurt that I also like their quality level which is as good or better than anything out there.

If we were to ever get another coach (unlikely because we like what we have) our list of priorities would have OTR at the top of the list. The lack of OTR would be a deal breaker. That is how important it is to us. We have other priorities, such as private toilet, long range fuel, dinette booth instead of a table, sofa and two chairs instead of two sofas, etc. We got the first three, but can live without the dinette and having two living room chairs. Notice that I did not list a preference between roof airs or Cuise Airs. I like our Cruise Airs, and I prefer them for several reasons, but roof airs are a great backup if the OTR fails to work. I cannot say that about the Cruise Airs.

I think you are taking the right approach to seeking a coach by focusing on the systems that make the coach enjoyable.

[Gary Carmichael]

Interesting OTR was a question we posed to the the salesman at Liberty, not being familiar with the system they just said do you want to stay cool on a hot day! Boy were they right on! an added bonus we both drive and one can go to the bedroom take anap in cool comfort. In the other coach we had to close the bedroom off ,and as someone mentioned in a previous post it was hot ion that area for several hours after we parked.

[rbeecher]

It sounds like as I expected, OTR air is the best way to go but some of the buses that I have been looking at have roof air and based upon what I'm reading and reading between the lines on some of the responses 3 roof air buses will NOT cool

Mark,

As you can see this is an excercise in partisan politics. If a bus owner has it, it's the greatest thing in the world. If they don't, or even did, and don't anymore, it isn't as good as when they had it. I had a 40 foot Vogue with OTR and three roof airs plus the drivers (dash) air. The OTR was overkill. Like you, I was very concerned about looking at a bus without OTR. So when I found the next bus of my dreams, a 2002 Marathon XLII with 3 roof airs, I made sure I waited for a blazing hot day when I went to inspect the coach, my personal PDI if you will. My instructions to Marathon in Florida were to close the bus up, A/C off and leave the shades up until I arrived. I even requested the bus be parked away from everything so it was not in any shade. When I arrived at mid day it was very, very hot, like what we are experiencing now. I proceeded to take my time inspecting the outside and all external systems. Once completed, I went for a drive, a long one. There had been no A/C on in the bus for 6 hours! Started the bus, turned on the drivers air and then one roof air then the other. In a Marathon XLII you can run two roof airs off the inverters going down the road. I have never, and I repeat, never, had a need for OTR and frankly, I wouldn't buy it again unless the bus was everything else I wanted and just happened to have OTR. My bus resides in south Florida. It has spent many weekends over the two years I have owned it sitting on hot asphalt or concrete in race track paddocks. We spend most of the time in the bus in Florida. When we are going down the road, my wife keeps her blanket on with the two out of three roof airs set at 72 degrees. From my experience, there really isn't an issue with any of the A/C set ups as long as they are properly maintained. You are welcome to visit or contact me if I can be of further help in any way.

Richard Beecher
2002 Marathon XLII 45
2010 Mini S toad

[charlesebrownjr]

Someone please help me with the terminology of these A/C units. What is Cruise Air, OTR A/C or Bus Air. I have a 40' 99 CC XL with three roof airs (which will not run off the inverters) I don't like the noise of the roof airs but have to live with it.
I have an engine driven compressor which runs A/C units under my kitchen cabinets and under one night stand in the bedroom. This A/C units keep the bus cool on the road.
Thanks All

[Kevin Erion]

I know this is going to sound like I am drinking from the same pond as Richard. I am on my 2nd Marathon, the first was a 99XLV and now an 01 XLII 45. Both buses had Prevost dash air and 3 cruise airs. We travel as a family, 4 girls and a driver, that would be me! Most of our trips start in late June when the kids get out of school and we go East, the desert, AZ, New Mexico, Texas and so on. It is always hot on our trips and I like to be cool when I drive, ask GaryD, so the dash air is aimed at the driver. The bedroom cruise air and the front cruise air will keep it to the point everyone but the driver is watching TV wraped up in blankets. The wife goes into the bedroom and disapers for hours on end, says she has a great book, I don't buy that, She is sleeping! Shades down, cool, black and a very faint vibration, wow, I can only dream because I am driving!
The point is I have never had Prevost OTR and may never, I would if everything else is the way it should be, but for now I never worry about when we should leave, or what the temp is outside. When it's hot, I am more worried about the temps I see on my tires from the infa red temp gun, but I do slow down and go Jon's speed to keep the tires cool and cozy.
And I have never felt like I needed to start the gen and run the 3rd cruise air, something I keep as an option.

[garyde]

I would think the XLII has better insulation and with its dual glazed windows it is going to retain cooler temps and keep the heat out better. Certain the OTR keeps my Coach very cool inside. Having the vents at the base of the windows also helps by starting the air circulation lower and cools the glass and walls keeping the heat transfer from the outside to a minimum. Even with the engine heat coming radiatig in the bedroom the OTR keeps the room very cool. You can't really tell how hot it is outside without sticking your hand out the window.

[Ray Davis]

My second coach, after selling the Country Coach, had 3 roof airs (it was a 40 footer). I will admit, I never had any A/C issues with it, however it was destroyed in a fire before I had a chance to travel in summer in it.

As mentioned current coach has bus air, and I'm happy with it. I'm not sure it's a deal breaker if looking for the next bus. But, I will say I am extremely pleased how cool the bus air keeps the coach.

[Ray Davis]

Charles,

So, there is essentially 3 (actually 4 different kinds of A/C) in most buses around today.

Roof air, we're all familiar with. Same stuff that's on top of any plastic coach.

Bus Air or OTR air is the A/C system put in seated coaches, powered by a huge compressor in the engine bay. Air comes up through ducts in the windows, and cools the entire coach. I think it's like a 7 ton compressor, and it will keep a coach icy cold. It's also takes a lot of bay space, and is pretty pricey option.

Cruise Air is units that are generally stored in the bay or up front behind the bumper area. They typically run only on shore or generator power (sometimes on large alternators you might use one or two).

Country Coach also made their own version of OTR for awhile (don't know if it went into 1999 or not), but they had their own compressor in the engine compartment, and generally had a 3 zone system, that it fed.

Generally these coaches would also have a dash-air system which was powered by another compressor in the engine. My CC didn't have the Prevost dash air, but only the CC OTR system.

I hope that helps a bit.

Ray

[Kenneth Brewer]

My last comment on this thread this year. Any system that will keep the coach cool is a good system if it is reliable, and would handle southwestern desert places like Phoenix or Tucson which can and will get over 110 in the summer, and perhaps camping in Death Valley NP type environments, both when on the road and when parked (camping) without benefit of shade. These conditions will be encountered sooner or later, I would think, and as someone has already said it would be a shame if after spending money for a "million-dollar" motorcoach such places would have to be avoided in order to remain comfortable. If you are reasonably assured of this, or that you would not be visiting or traveling through such places, you will have what you need, and you can feel confident in your decision.