Chasis Batteries

[jack14r]

Jon,The heat makes sense,and you are right that cost is a disadvantage.I have used AGM batteries in race cars for some time but we do replace them every 2-3 years.I did have a problem with a gel that was a house battery that was only 1 year old and I thought that it might be heat related and your information makes me believe that it was.I replaced all 6 with Lifeline Agm batteries and they are working out fine.Do you think that the AGM's are less sensitive to heat than the gels?

[truk4u]

Jack,

As Jon pointed out, heat seems to be the killer for AGM's. Other articles I've read claim that AGM's are also not tolerant to the constant higher voltage of some alternators. In a commercial operation, the wet cell start batteries are good for thousands of cycles and the AGM's have a lower cycle number.

I just did my chassis batteries in February and the cost of wet cell sealed vs AGM was probably 50% and my concern has always been heat in the engine compartment.

Now if I had the King's money, I would get the gold plated super sponge titanium NASA approved "Sparky!"

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jack,

I do not have information about the relative heat sensitivity of gell and AGM batteries. But I do know neither can handle heat. If they get too hot, but do not vent they form gas bubbles internally, exposing the plates and reducing their effectiveness. If they get too hot they will vent, at which point they have failed. I wish I knew the relative temperatures when these gassing and venting events occur.

As to voltage from what I have read the old lead acid batteries are quite tolerant of voltages that would damage a gell or AGM. It is my understanding from what I have read that a gell battery is less tolerant of higher voltage, and if a gell is exposed to high temps plus high voltage its life is almost nothing.

After my experience with the Interstate gel cell batteries I determined that their charging attributes do not sufficiently offset their weaknesses and although I am only on my second set of AGM batteries I got 5+ years of very good service from them, longer than any other house battery except my Delco Freedom 27's that I used for house batteries in my first coach. They were lead acid batteries, but their location in an area above the chassis batteries was well vented so I never had reservations about their use.

BTW, in defense of Interstate the batteries were not widely available gel cells and my usage of them was monitored by the distributor who spent many evenings in my barn monitoring them. Whenever any failed they were replaced at no charge, and after several years of usage, which included failures they were pulled and replaced with conventional lead acid.

[TG Transport]

Thanks for all the advice. I just bought 4 NAPA Maintenance Free Group 31 batteries for $92/ea. Switching them out was a less than pleasant experience but something anyone can do if you spend the time labeling the leads and wire tying all the bundles for each post. She started like a champ afterward.

I mis-spoke when I initially said my former batteries were Delco. They were actually Exide PX 31's and dated June 2004 so they definitely had a long career.

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

We called Lifeline 2-3 months ago for batterries and identified us as POG members and was told that there was NO DISCOUNTS to us. Honestly this happened. We even repeated to them about Lifeline as one of our sponsors and still was told, NO DISCOUNT. We were quoted $500something for the AGM's each.

[Jim Skiff]

Lifeline is no longer a sponsor but was until the end of April and from a business stand point, "No Discount" ???? when you have a customer ready to make a purchase?
Not a good business move by Lifeline.

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

We agree strongly with you, Jim! We were going to buy 3-4 batterries from them at least. If there had been a discount, possibly would have bought a complete set for the house. We just moved on and told them, "Ok, thank you very much...Goodby".

[hhoppe]

J Skiff: We are doo for new house batteries. Have you lined up another sponsor source for AGM's? Where is everone going in lieu of Lifeline for their AGM's
Thanks

[gmcbuffalo]

Jim, what was Lifelines reason for dropping us?
GregM

[BenC]

We spoke to Lifeline regarding the POG discount pricing they offered last year and were informed that it was supposed to be a temporary promotional price, which at the time was lower than any dealer could even get the batteries for. It was not meant to be a slap in the face to POG that it ended, but a goodwill promotion that simply ran out. Some dealers charge as much as $700-900 per 8D Lifeline (Lazy Days, for instance).

As far as the heat situation, the answer is temperature compensation. All Vantare, Marathon, Parliament, and Amadas (amoung others) that installed Trace's white inverter (either the RV-series or the SW-series) should have that feature. All had yellow telephone-style connections that went to the house batteries to sense and compensate charging voltage for temperature. In these coaches, battery life for a Lifeline AGM is generally 4 to 6 years, or about twelve hundred charge and discharge cycles. No other AGM battery on the market can say that. Lifeline is pattented and one of a kind (at least until the patent runs out). I am not trying to sound like a Lifeline representative defending them, but in the proper environment, they are BY FAR the best battery, especially for high power inverters like the SW4024.
I will say that a Heart inverter, lacking temperature compensation, can distroy them, and every other non-liquid battery on the market. The right battery for the right application is important. Liquid lead-acid batteries also have a very important DOT ramification to where they can be installed. They have to be in a vented compartment with no spark-producing equipment. Because they can and do gas, producing hydrogen, they are treated by DOT as an explosion hazard. Please bear that in mind in chosing replacement batteries for your coach. For engine-starting, deep cycle batteries (which have fewer and thicker plates) are also not the best choice, especially in cold weather starting applications.

Hear is the rule of thumb about batteries: If you see a CCA rating on them and no AMP-HOUR rating, they are designed with more but thinner plates to facilitate short-term high current engine starting, but because the plates are thinner, they tend to break easily under deep discharge situations. They are engine starting batteries only.
If you see am AMP-HOUR rating, with our without a CCA rating, then the battery was constructed with the fewer and thicker plates, with not as much surface area for the high-current starting applications, but great for deep discharges, making them ideal for house batteries.

Also note that most battery manufacturers, at least if they know the situation, will not warrant the batteries that were designed for starting if installed in a house battery situation.
Hope the info helps. Thanks.