Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 40

Thread: Montana LLC's

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Port St. Lucie, FL
    Posts
    1,745

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jack14r View Post
    If the LLC has a Montana address,wouldn't it be impossible for a state to figure out who owns the coach?Bennett Law uses their address in Montana for the LLC.
    I'm not sure how Massachusetts figured it out in this particular case, but they did. I'm sure that with a little digging, it would be easy for them to search every public record involving Montana LLC's and look for out-of-state mailing addresses or such. I have never set up an LLC in Montana, so I don't know what information is collected during the process.

    I would guess that if you are full-timing, with only a mail forwarding address of record and little proof that you are a "resident" of another state, it might be more difficult to track you down.

    It might also be possible to compare the voting records or DMV records of a state looking for cash against the list of Montana LLC's.

    Very little can be truly hidden in this information age. For all I know, if there is an allegation of a crime, it might be even easier for a state agency to get information from the public records of another state.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Wilsonville, OR 97070
    Posts
    852

    Default

    Jim
    I know in Oregon is you do a cororation search with the Sec of State you come up with not only the agent but also the corporate officers and their addresses. BINGO got cha.

    Also back in the 60s and 70's their where many RV dealers in Oregon that were registering out of state RVs with Oregon places (two years $ amounts in the teens), some of them got closed down with legal action and at that time I think it was the State of Oregon that didn't like it.
    Greg

  3. #13
    Devin W Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg View Post
    Am I allowed to say "I told you so"?

    If you do have a Montana LLC, if you can come up with a legitimate business purpose for the bus you may have a chance to beat the possible financial consequences.

    We created the Jamestown Advanced campground equipment product line including fire rings, grilles, picnic tables, and electrical power outlets and the bus was used to attend as many as 30 trade shows annually, carrying the display and providing both our lodging and transportation. It was our ownership of the bus and using campgrounds around the country that inspired the creation of that portion of the business, now its primary business segment.

    In later years I put on seminars for a major customer's behalf and the bus carried the seminar materials, samples, literature and AV equipment all of which could only be reliably expected to arrive at the seminar location via our bus or my plane.

    As second benefit to having a legitimate business purpose is the bus can be claimed on the tax return. There is not much recapture involved if you expense a depreciating asset, although you will need some paperwork between you and the LLC for personal use.
    John, I'm curious if this creates another dilemma in that the coach is then used for interstate commerce and technically is subject to weigh stations and commercial driver rules. In fact, at minimum, once deemed to fall into this category a vehicle must carry DOT ID numbers.

    I was thinking about this because I considered associating the bus with my business, but decided I didn't want to take on the possible associated concerns.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Jim, the taxing authorities know the attorneys involved, make no mistake. Second, these attorneys cannot knowingly participate in a sheme designed to evade the payment of state sales taxes. This is not an act of avoidance, it is an act of evading and circumventing established law. You must make certain assurrances and representations that will come back to bite you badly. Third, if a coach is kept in Texas more than a very brief time, (60 days), the ownership must be transferred according to the law and proof of taxes provided at transfer. Fourth, there is no reciprocity among Texas and other states in this type of transaction according to our lawyer.
    At least that is the way Texas sees it. I can not disagree. I am not interested in seeing a fellow motorcoach owner evade taxes that law abiding citizens pay .

    Just my thoughts respectfully submitted.
    Reagan
    Pres

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    anytown
    Posts
    8,908

    Default

    Devin,

    I understand your concern, but the coach was our coach personally. It was never a corporate asset and it's treatment was no different than if I used my car for business purposes. Since the corporation never compensated me, I logged 100% of my usage, and kept accurate records of the personal use and business use, and claimed expenses on my tax return. Business use was not in the sense that I needed a commercial license plate, any more than a salesman needs one for his car. I did not earn money via the use of the bus, but I used the bus to earn money.

    For those that have a Montana LLC and want to stay as much below the radar as possible, make sure the toad has Montana plates. Don't piss off the neighbors, have a business purpose for the LLC beyond beating your home state out of sales tax or registration fees, and keep the tags out of sight as much as possible.

    As the states continue to run short on cash they are doing almost anything to raise cash. If you have a Montana plate on the bus and a different state on the toad any state official can copy the plate numbers and do a quick check and soon you get a notice. If your neighbor is jealous or mad at you they can turn you in.

    The state grab for money in TN has gotten so crazy they want to charge a sales tax on the continental breakfast that comes free with your hotel room. Why wouldn't they go after buses registered in MT?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Lake Forest
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    Calif Highway Patrol are now routinely stopping RV's with out-of-state plates, if they have in-state plates for their towed vehicle.

    They will stop and ask a series of questions. Basically they go something like:

    1. Which state do you live
    2. Whch state do you work
    3. Which state do you file income tax
    4. Which state are your cars registered
    5. Which state is your RV registered

    If the answers to 1-4 are California, and #5 is somewhere else, they will cite you, and not only for back taxes, but for fines and penalties. I guess you might be able to fight it, but ....

    There is some provision in CA law, that if a vehicle is registered out of state, that it has to physically be out of state for some specified period each year. I believe that it's 6 months per year.

    I'm not a lawyer, but this scared me enough to pay the huge taxes. I would like to eventually get out of CA however, as my yearly plate fees are about $3500.00. Yeah, just for plates, it costs me about $0.50 per mile to drive.

    Ray

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    anytown
    Posts
    8,908

    Default

    It is not only CA that is doing this although they have been agressively nailing owners since we bought our first bus in 1990.

    You can bet the farm as states treat this as a revenue source the crackdown will spread to every state.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Completely and hypothetically speaking. If one had a Montana LLC and had registered the coach to the LLC, how would you proceed to change it to your home state?

    This would be a transfer of ownership from the Montana LLC to ones person or business whether it be LLC, LLP, Sole proprietor or corporate with no dollars changing hands.

    The first thing the home state is going to ask is "how much did you pay for the camper"?

    The next question is going to be "what is fair market value"?

    My answer to that question is that it is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. In my opinion, if the home state is so anxious to get these vehicles registered in their state that this should almost be some kind of a negotiation.

    With that said. How do we value these things in this low market? I don't think the state has any idea what these are let alone what they are worth......

    P.S. I told my attorney about what I did and he had a meltdown!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    anytown
    Posts
    8,908

    Default

    True story...When I bought our first coach most people did not know what a Prevost was.

    I bought the coach from the widow of a gentleman who I believe died without a will, thus the transaction was not as simple as the owner signing the title.

    I was provided with the legal documentation of the sale from the estate, including a bill of sale for a value far less than the purchase price, but still substantial. When I registered the coach in my name the lady from the DMV saw the "purchase price" and charged the sales tax based on that. She never even questioned it because it was the largest number she had ever seen.

    My point is there are Prevost conversions, Prevost entertainer coaches, and Prevost seated coaches. Every one has a different value based on the year of the coach. Pick a number. I seriously doubt if it will be questioned especially if you can print out an internet example or two to show asking prices.

    When we re-registered all of our vehicles in TN from NY there was no sales tax. I am not an attorney, but I know a company incorporated in one state and register vehicles in another. You may wish to check to see if your home state will allow vehicle registration using the LLC address. At that point your toad license plate and your dirver license all match states.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Wilsonville, OR 97070
    Posts
    852

    Default

    I know that when I was in Nashville Prevost facilities in the summer of 2005 there was a guy there that own entertainer coaches, a TN company that had all his buses with Oregon plates. So I guess some states allow it.
    Greg

Similar Threads

  1. Montana LLC's
    By Just Plain Jeff in forum The 'Biz" of Prevost Ownership
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 04-24-2009, 12:45 PM
  2. Montana LLC ?
    By ajhaig in forum The 'Biz" of Prevost Ownership
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-23-2008, 11:23 AM
  3. Montana LLC - CO, IL & OH
    By truk4u in forum Law and Order
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-19-2007, 06:32 PM
  4. Montana ? ? ?
    By jello_jeep in forum TIPS ON TRAVEL
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-27-2007, 12:04 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •