Let's make POG better

[tdelorme]

I was going to stay out of this but if we're all going to express an opinion, here goes.

We're members of a privately owned company. It's not a country club or a fraternal organization where we all get to vote on issues that come up. We're members like you would be a member of a health club or privately owned culb of any kind. In reality, like Peter said, we're customers.
The dispute between Jim and Joe is absolutely none of our business. It does not concern us. We're beating a dead horse with this deal.
This needs to be handled by the parties involved and I for one don't want or need to know the details.
What I would like is for everyone to show up in OKC next week ready to have a blast and learn from the activities that are planned. We're way better than this. Let's move on.

[BUSTER]

"You cannot please all of the people...all of the time"

"A business is not a democracy"

I give Jim a passing grade for how he handles the site..this is his job.

I have no issues on what has been done.

I do not think it warrants a public forum at OKC.

I am a member of the silent majority on this.

May this be the last post on this topic...here's hoping!!!

I look forward to seeing many of you soon.

All the best,

[garyde]

Hi Peter. I think the POG folks already hashed this out and put it on a shelf. Beats me why we need another review on this.
There's really no more to it.

[Darl-Wilson]

Fellow Poggers,
My concerns are as follows:

1. Either we are MEMBERS or CUSTOMERS. If we are members, then that infers we have some say over the operation of the group, by providing input to a manager or board of directors, or by participating in the creation of a document that governs the operation by a manager, bylaws if you will. If we are customers, then we simply take what is provided for the price charged, or not. The home page of POG calls us members. But there is no mechanism to affect the operation of POG by members. All we can do is call or email Skiff and he decides without recourse. As it is now I feel I am being treated as a customer, not a member, and I know how to act as a customer if I am not satisfied.

Looking forward to everyone's comments!

I am a member of Costco..I can't vote on reinstating another member that had his card revoked. I am a member of the Good Sam Club. I cannot dictate how Bob Livingston writes his column. I was a member of the U.S. Navy and I wasn't allowed to vote for the skipper of my squadron or to demand that he change a ruling he made regarding any operation. He could put me in the brig if I voiced opposition to his command.

As a member of the POG I always knew my membership was based on payment of my 'dues', behaving like a gentleman, and most importantly that the POG is a privately owned, for-profit business. This is much the same as the Good Sam Club and all of it's affiliates. They are a private, for-profit business.

So Peter, you are honorably departing the POG but not without leaving many of us wondering why you are trying to besmirch the reputation and business practices of a small, family-run company.

Darl

PS: Jon W's latest post summerizes how I perceive this tempest. Not very pretty and it sure is time to move on.

[phorner]

In some respects, I believe that the spirited, and at times emotional, discussion that has followed these events help demonstrate the success of POG as a forum.

Many of us have long surpassed the classic status of "member" as we have met each other, helped each other and socialized together. We have made close friends and relationships that feel much more like an extended family than simple on-line participants in a faceless forum. So, it's only natural to want to come to the aid of a "family" member or close friend that we might perceive has been wronged. Our first reaction is to want to help out in any way we can. We feel a kinship that most on-line forums fail to achieve.

All that being said, it's easy to forget that this forum is also a business that provides the livelihood of the owner/administrator upon which a family depends. It is the not only the right, but the obligation, of every business owner to make decisions that are believed to be in the best interest of the business and the family which depends on it.

As a member of an on-line forum, I have no right to question business decisions which are, frankly, none of my business.

I also have every right to miss friends who, for what ever reason, no longer participate in our on-line discussions.

It's time to move on......

See ya in OKC, and have a safe and uneventful trip there!

[Coloradobus]

UGH!! We want to enjoy OKC!! If you want RV politics up to your necks, buy an Airstream and join the WBCCI.

[Sid Tuls]

Just go to the rally and have a great time! Forget about this little hick-up and polish up our toys and cook up some steaks and sheep and then sit around and enjoy being a POG member!!!!!!!!!

[truk4u]

Sid,

Cooking sheep, now you've done it!

PS - Thanks for the T in Nashville.....

[BrianE]

Peter is of course and old and dear friend. We've known him and his family for years. Beverly and I highly value their friendship though we sometimes view things from opposite ends of the same telescope. We've also become good friends with both Joe and Jim....

1. Peter: You've made your point. Folks, it's time to move on and enjoy the rally.

2. Jim and Joe: Though it's no ones business but yours, please reach for the best in yourselves and try to patch things up.

[sawdust_128]

You all seem to be so upset that Joe and Lew are gone. You seem to get pissed off that Skiff did something. I am not upset or pissed off about any of that. All three men have something in common, they play with passion. I have great respect for all three as at any given moment, they might do the right thing, they might do the wrong thing, but they won’t do nothing.

First Lew: Lew lives his life his way. He doesn’t mince his words. He has been raised when correct was more important than politically correct. I truly admire him for that and find too many people would benefit from a big dose of vitamin Lew. I spoke with him just before he sold his coach. He decided that now was the right time to sell the coach and he did just that. I am happy for Lew. I admire him as he is still calling his own shots in his own way and on his own time. Lew’s life transcended POG. Right on Lew!!

Now Skiff. Here is a man I have never met. He has always helped me when I asked. He has a business to run. He seems to do it with more than a reasonable degree of competence and success. He like every other person on this earth has a set of priorities, and as we all know, sometimes those are goals and sometimes they are limitations. It is up to the individual to decide for himself how to play the hand. I thank Skiff for doing something and not sitting back and letting things get completely out of control. I would be gone from the POG in a heartbeat if that happened.

Lastly, Joe: There is no way that Joe and I could not become friends once we met. There is no way Joe will ever not be my friend. For me, he is one of those people that you feel like you have always known. I think I look very differently at the result that pisses so many of you off. I am amazed by it. I have to ask myself what did one little Italian kid from Chicago’s south side do to piss so many people off? I am befuddled by it at other times. How bad is the economic forecast of the converters if one little Italian guy becomes the focus of such angst?

I’ve been pretty much sitting back watching all this. It seems to me That Joe departing the POG was a good thing. For Skiff, problem over. For Joe, he got a whole bunch of advertising that the converters can’t even buy. They turned Joe into a legend of sorts. To use a Yogi Berra-ism, if the converters are so worried about what Joe is doing, what is it that Joe is doing that so worries them? So, I say good for Skiff and good for Joe. Too bad for the sponsors that complained (if that was what happened) as eventually, they will be found out., and I suspect that the disclosure won’t be too good for them.

Here’s the bottom line. Neither Skiff nor Joe are going to change their mind. That’s over and in the words of Tony Soprano “Fugetaboutit!” End of story! End of conversation! It ain’t gonna happen! That dog won’t hunt. Time to move on regarding that one.

However, there are still a number of issues being voiced. Some have merit, others can be worked around, but some just really chafe my ass.

Here we go:

None of the “members/customers” of POG is entitled to disclosure as to what happened . That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

The statement on the front page of the POG web which alludes to “no bosses” , that’s bull and needs to be corrected. It is misleading.

Many of you want the threads regarding this to stop. I say to you O.K. we heard you now go read another thread.

Some of you are concerned about “Private Messages” not being so private. It is simple, go use email or your calling plan.

Several of you have expressed a need for rules/guidelines. Great! Make it happen, don’t let me get in your way. If they work for me when they are done, I stay. Otherwise I fold my tent and pack out. That’s just the way it is.

Now I come to the issues that frost my butt.

Several of you had the audacity to contact me and tell me What, When, and How to feel about this situation. That act was definitely way over the top. Let me say this straight up. YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO THINK FOR ME. Make sure you remember that. I will look silly putting my size 11 steel toe-boot in your ass (figuratively), and you are going to look stupid trying to get it out, if you forget. That is a promise. I have now fixed ignorance, I won't try to fix stupid.

POG has sponsors. We know who those companies are. Who from the sponsors is reading POG and when? Why should we not know this? Why does no one on this forum feels a moral obligation to tell the new guys (the fresh meat) about the fact that they have entered the fish shooting barrel? That when they state they are looking for a coach they are probably painting a bull’s-eye on themselves for every salesman of every sponsor? They are so pre-qualified by the time they show up, I suspect that the whole sales effort is scripted against them. Plus, let those sales guys do their own damn work unless they want to include us in their compensation plan.

Who are the “guests” who are logged in all the time? Why are they entitled to anonymity? Are they criminals? Are they cowards? What is being hidden by whom? What is up with that? Because of these anonymous users, I didn’t trust the forum when I originally joined and the little trust I have developed over the past year has now been eroded significantly. Make no mistake, I have a great deal of trust in the members I know, but the forum is not a secure environment. Way too many unknowns to be trusted.

Why don’t the sponsors more actively participate in the discussions? Obviously they are sufficiently aware of the content of the forum as to be able to influence and effect changes to the membership if it fits their agenda. Which one of them is going to stand up and fill the content and information void left by the changes that have occurred?

Bottom line for me on this, all the sponsors got dirty on this probably because of the shameful actions of one. That’s too bad.