Surge Protectors

[michaeldterry]

Some info over at Prevoman.com

http://www.prevoman.com/Pages/Cool%2.../Surgepg1.html

Attachment 5263

Mike

Okay - I'm sold! I'll have to save my pennies as quick as I can to buy this, a TPMS, and pay the $1,000 insurance deductable for my recent "idiot incident" with the high curb! Owning a Prevost ain't for the faint of heart (or handicripples on fixed incomes)! But, being that I'm brain damaged, I have an excuse to ignore the fixed income limitations and plead ignorance! "Membership (in the brain damaged club) has its privileges!"

[Ray Davis]

After the recent power incident at our new storage site (other thread), the manager moved me to a different unit which he indicated had 50A power. It turned out to actually be a 30A plug, but that was OK. I plugged the PT-50C into it (via an adapter), only to find they had reverse wired the 30A plug!

It's a great unit. I personally haven't had any issues, but as mentioned above there are a few that have had problems, but I think in all cases the company made good with a new unit.

Ray

[Sid Tuls]

Thanks, for all the responses I'm going to order one Monday.

[dale farley]

Sid,

I've also used the portable unit on my last two Prevosts and never had a problem.

[Jeff Bayley]

I didn't start this out to be a brain teaser but it would be a good puzzle for a RV technician contest. I had chimed in with an inverter, electrical issue and rekindled an older thread about a week and a half ago but I'm still trouble shooting it and I think it could be surge related so I'm posting it here now also. Would rather try to squeeze it in here instead of staring a new thread. This thread seems to be coasting to it’s close after Sid said he made his decision so I hope he doesn't mind if I creep in here. I apologize in advance for the lengthy description of my electrical problem as it relates to the surge protector. Hopefully this can also serve as a good lesson on what not to do.

I have an on board, in line and installed by Royal circa 1997; a Leviton surge protector but it took a hit and blew it's top several months ago when an electrician handy man friend mis-wired his home 50 amp plug (for use on his welder) to be able to let me plug my coach in when parked in front of his place. He was not an RV or Bus owner and as such, mis-wired the home made adapter despite being mostly competent. When we didn't get power right away, we unplugged it and put the in line Progressive unit in to find out that we (umm, he) had made an error and then he re-wired correctly. Next time I'll think to use the Progressive unit before instead of after the fact. Duh. Guess I had to learn the hard way. Instead of having a chance to blow the Progressive unit, it took out the Leviton unit. Odd that the Leviton unit continued to allow power through despite being blown. Should the on board Leviton surge protector allow unfiltered power through after being blown ? It seems more sensible it would not allow any power through (as the external Progressive unit would do I believe). Perhaps RV surge protectors are not consistent as regards whether they do or do not continue to let power though. In the case of an on-board unit like the Leviton, perhaps they realize that it's better to allow unprotected power to continue to flow so as not to depilate your shore power all together and it's up to the coach owner to periodically check that the LED protection lights are illuminating on the unit from time to time. The two green lights on the Leviton (1 to indicate when working on shore power, 1 to indicate it's working on generator)......neither one of the lights came on yet I continued getting power. What I was negligent in doing was to continue using the Progressive unit once I got home & until such time I could replace the on board Leviton unit.

I found a post prior that stated “The red light blinks and makes an audible alarm (currently) and the information on the front cover clearly states that if it's doing that the component is bad and needs to be replaced.” (end quote) In this instance, I’m fairly certain that I don’t have an audible alarm going off. Further, I found a post that stated “Remove the faulty Leviton component, DO NOT replace it. Use a surge guard, the type that plugs into the external 50 amp plug, and your shore cord plugs into it. This will do the same job as your original piece, for less money, and it is not hard wired like the original. The piece mounted above your transfer switch was an add-on upgrade by the original manufacturer of the transfer switch, and they have a high failure rate.” (end quote).


On the Trace 2,500 watt inverters (the inverters/chargers themselves, not the remotes), there is a small, removable panel on the front upper right hand side. Behind that panel is a small factory installed jumper with an LED light next to it. It is labeled "Utility line TC test. Remove to disconnect A/C1 In relay. LED simulates relay operation". If there is an A/C1 relay somewhere I don't know where it located. Could it be referring to the I checked this light a week ago and it was in fact illuminated. Now it's not. The symptoms of what is not working did not change however the AC1 In Good light on the inverter remote panel is not lighting up concurrent with the LED light on the inverter itself referenced above, also not lighting up.

I thought because one half of my coach was not working, it had something to do with a bad connection related to the new house batteries I installed and that I had replaced within about a week of noticing the problem (emphasis on NOTICING the problem) but I now believe that it may have been a coincidence. I can't recall if I disconnected shore power prior to changing the batteries. If I failed to do so, could this have been a possible culprit to making a "surge" and making the inverter take a hit? Suppose the answer is "maybe".

For those of you that have time to help or add any advise, here is the link to my other posting on a related thread rather than recount it all here. Also some additional discussion on the Progressive unit can be found here.

http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/...?t=3695&page=2



Questions if readers can help answer any or all.

1: Should the on board Leviton surge protector allow "dirty" power through after being blown ? Is this a question for a distributor or the manufacture or do any of you know the answer ?


2: If the shore power side of the Leviton unit was blown (ie, LED light for shore power not illuminating) would the generator side of the same Leviton also cease to work (ie, LED should / would not illuminate ?) The LED's for both generator side of the Leviton and the shore power of the Leviton are, neither one, illuminating even though I only had a surge on the shore power.

3: What is the significance of the LED, next to the removable jumper, not illuminating behind the small access panel of the inverter? The meters (separate needle from the remote) is indicating I do in fact have shore power.

4: I do not know at what point the meter which is inside the coach and confirms power is coming in, picks up the voltage. All things considered, I think it might be picking up the power somewhere in line between the automatic transfer switch and the inverters/chargers. Can anyone confirm?

5: I can't recall if I disconnected shore power prior to changing the batteries. If I failed to do so, could this have been a possible culprit to making a "surge" and making the inverter take a hit? Suppose the answer is "maybe". ??

[garyde]

Hi Jeff. Your leviton surge protector should be replaced prior to proceeding with anything else. It may be 'leaking' voltage thru but no appreciable curent is flowing, fooling you into believeing you have shore power. If your Generator is connected thru the same surge unit , it too will not work.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

With all due respect to Jeff, I think it is a slippery slope trying to diagnose an electrical problem with so many unknowns. In fact as I read Jeff's post it gets downright scary.

I cannot speak for others, especially for professional mechanics and electricians, but when I am presented with an electrical issue I have to get out my meter and follow the circuit from the beginning to the end. Jeff's description bounces all over the place. What Jeff needs to do is start at the power cord and look for continuity every step of the way. Terms like "blew its top" aren't exactly precise terms and their meaning could be interpreted in any number of ways. To me that means it was blown apart and there is a blackened vestige of what was once a Leviton unit now in his bus.

Here's my advice to Jeff.......take the coach to a knowledgable service center such as Parliament or any of the others familiar with Royale coaches. Let them go through it completely. I have seen some of what it looks like in Jeff's coach and with his radical ideas on adding a gas generator and some other things he has contemplated at this point nobody can diagnose this problem. My concern is Jeff may end up burning up his coach if he continues to use a scattergun approach to problem solving.

Sorry Jeff. You are playing in a very dangerous area and if a professional electrician can miswire a 50 amp plug and blow up your Leviton, imagine what you can do to your coach. He only had to hook up four wires to a receptacle that was clearly marked.

[mike kerley]

We use the portable unit, also have one infront of the meter installed by the utility company and have all of our electronics plugged into additonal surge protectors (the best one's we could afford). One in the overhead, one in the rear, one by the microwave and another in the entertainment bay outside.

You can not have to much surge protection! Lightning or a major power surge can blow past two or three protectors and stop at the fourth or, if your lucky, stop with the first one. Install as much as you can afford and check or change on a regular basis, as many are "one shot devices" and continue to pass current, but offer no protection after the first blast.

[phorner]

Sounds like good advice, Mike.

While installing some microwave radio equipment for a SCADA system, I specified that surge protection wold be required. Every bidder responded that no matter what surge protection was installed, no one could guarantee that the radio equipment would survive a direct lightning strike.

You can only do the best you can and pay those insurance premiums on time...

[Jeff Bayley]

Thank you for the continued replies and advise. I don't think I've ruined anything yet as I have only done testing with the meter and am not planning on rewiring my bus in an effort to solve the problem but only to find the faulty components and replace them or have them replaced. I'll have exhausted my ability to find the faulty components fairly soon. I took John's advise he gave me prior and am only running my aux generator through the shore cord and it has worked well. I think I should start with changing the Leviton Unit as Gary stated and continue using the Progressive unit in the meantime. I got some advise to remove the Leviton unit completley as they had a high failure rate and replace it by using the external unit however as Mike stated you can't too much protection so I'll leave the archeitecture just as it is and hense forth always use the external unit. If something blows the external unit then I still have the on board unit until getting a new external one. Further, the external unit provides no surge protection for the generator as the on board unit does. I don't know if our generators ever surge or not.

John- Thank you for your input. I will be very careful not to modify or change anything. I didn't think to go to Parliment because I didn't know they were familiar with Royal coaches. You made me remember that I might also get on the phone with Royale Phoenix which I forgot about. I haven't been traveling much so I haven't had many maintaince issues.

Does anyone have anything to add or say about the LED lights behind the small front access panel on the front of the inverters that I spoke of ? I'm sorry my description was all over the place and not more fluid and condensed.