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Thread: Learned something about inverters the hard way ....

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    Default Learned something about inverters the hard way ....

    I recently had to vacate my hangar where the bus was stored because the owner sold it. We had installed 50A power there, and it was a great place to stay.

    Anyway, found an indoor RV storage solution out near Lake Perris at a pretty reasonable cost (for CA standards), and after spending a week in the bus out at Rancho CA, I put the bus in it's new home.

    Because it only has a 15A circuit, I dialed down the inverters and left the bus. 4 days later, I decided to go back out to the bus (1 hour drive), to check on a video issue I had seen on my previous trip. I arrived to find the bus dead as a doornail, with the storage sites external circuit breaker tripped.

    Evidently the night watchman at this site had been trying to plug in a personal air conditioner in a garage 2-3 down from me, which evidently shared the same 15A circuit. Evidently he popped the breaker a number of times (according to the manager), and they ultimately ran him a long power cord from another unit, but unfortunately, they left the breaker in the "broken" position, and my coach inverted itself to death over the 4 day period. (Refridgerator was on).

    I was able to fire up the coach and the generator and start the batteries charging. I understand later, talking to Marathon, it would have been better to not start the bus and hit the batteries with 270A of charging, but anyway, that's another story.

    Anyway, on to what I learned about the inverters. I hope this might be instructive to others. (This is on a Trace inverter)

    1. There is a charge-only setting on the inverter panel. Rather than selecting "On", select "Chg", which is the far right menu entry. According to the manual what this does is pass A/C through, charges the batteries, but IF the external power goes down, it does not try to invert. It specifically says it's to handle the case where public power goes down.

    If I had used this setting, I would have lost the food in the fridgerator, however I wouldn't have damaged my batteries.

    2. When I tried to dial both inverters down, and set them into charge mode, the aux inverter kept resetting, on/off. What I finally surmised is that besides setting down the input cord size (amps), you may also need to turn down the amount of amps available to the charger (battery charging menu, #10)

    Ultimately what I did was turn the aux inverter off, and set the input amps to 12A. Then I dialed down the battery charging amps to 10A, and this then was safe in bringing my batteries back up.

    A couple of other things, based upon previous discussions regarding the charging time setting on batteries. We've had discussions that for many of us who do not boon-dock, we could turn down the bulk charge time from the default of 3 hours to something less.

    As it turns out, I don't think this is really necessary. What I discovered after watching the charging voltages and amps very closely over a couple of weeks is that although the inverter will be in bulk charge mode, the actual current charging will be limited by the batteries need. I.e., if your batteries are fully charged (like you just drove 100 miles), then even though the inverters indicator lights will show bulk charge, although they may only be actually trickle charging at that point (on the order of 1-2A).

    It is my guess that the bulk charge timer value as set in the battery charging menus is used as a fail-safe, that after the appropriate amount of time, the charge will go to float mode, whether or not the charger was charging at full bulk mode. I think this is a safety to prevent a bad battery from causing bulk level charging to happen over long periods of time.


    Obviously our coaches can all be wired in many different ways, but I found that turning off the aux inverter/charger, I was better able to regulate the charging current (because of the darn 15A circuit), and all the batteries were still being charged.

    Please note if you do turn off an inverter, when it is turned on, it comes back at default settings, so it's expecting a 50A shore cord, full-rate charging on batteries etc, so you may need to dial them down to fit your particular needs.

    For those of us who don't have 30 or 50A power available at a storage site, using the "charge-only" setting may help you from destroying a set of batteries. As we know, it costs somewhere around $3500 to $4500 to replace a full set of coach batteries.

    ray

  2. #2
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    If I had to have my coach in a remote location I would definitely set the bus cell phone up with some device to phone and warn of a power outage.

    Ray's suggestions about setting the inverters up to stop inverting is an excellent suggestion, but perhaps the best approach of all is to put the entire coach to sleep but killing all power from both chassis and house batteries and visiting the coach as often as required to recharge the batteries. To shut down my coach only involves several shut off switches, and a fully charged set of batteries will last a long time before requiring a fresh charge.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
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    Ray, sorry for your troubles, but thanks for the info. I have set one charge limit setting to 30 amps, but need to set the other to the same limit. Has been on my list of things to figure out as when I first go from driving to shore power, the invertors throw massive current to the batteries at the same time I am trying to start cruiseairs. Doesn't last long, but many times it kicks out the 50 amp Marathon aux reset. Didn't know why it was still happening since I had the input set to 30 amps, but you have answered that question.

    I also learned what you have surmised about the bulk charge mode. The current to the batteries goes down as they charge even though it is still in bulk mode. So the time doesnt' really matter before it switches to float as they take whatever they need to charge anyway. By limiting max charge input to 30 amps or so, I can avoid the peak demand shown when first switching over, and won't worry about the 3 hr bulk charge setting. (please let me know if I am missing something).

    The problem I have with letting the coach sleep is that it is 105 degrees outside and the bus storage is not much cooler. I am fortunate enough to have 50 amp service so I can run a couple of the cruiseairs at 82 or so to keep the interior from getting too hot. Have worried about the breakers kicking out and the batteries going down quickly in that situation. Sounds like the "charge only" option you discovered is a good solution to save the batteries.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Hey Gordon,

    Yeah, as you've noticed, you have to generally lower the charging settings on both inverters. IN the case of 50A, you should actually have 2x50A (50 on each leg), so setting each inverter to 30A should be fine. You could probably set it lower without much issue, as I assume you are like I am in that you don't generally boondock and need to charge at 60A total.

    In the case of a 30, 20 or 15A plug, that's all you got, shared on both legs, so both inverters need to be cut to half of that. Plus, as Jon has mentioned (I believe) in the past, you really only want to use about 80% of a rated circuit, so when I set mine recently, I limited to 12A on a 15A circuit, with the second inverter turned off.

    Jon, I have been trying to think of a way that I could easily get status reports from the bus. It would be great if there is some device that would send an email or text page when power went out? I don't know of such a device, but it seems like a useful gadget. Unfortunately, that seems to indicate it would need to either have a cellphone internally, or access to a wifi to send message? Generally hard to come by at a remote location.

    Ray

  5. #5
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    Hey Ray,

    I turned down the input amount to both inverters, but need to also limit the charge amount in menu 10 as you said. With only that one limit set, they are still throwing max current to the batteries.

  6. #6
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    Ray, As most have figured out by now I usually do not embrace technology.

    However there are alarm monitoring services that have devices to report power outages. Our bus has a cell phone hard wired into the coach. With battery backup for standby power anytime the power in the storage building was shut off the cell phone could automatically dial a preset number and electronically report the outage.

    I don't know how it functions or where to find the devices, but I know it can be done. A monthly phone service charge is chump change compared to a set of batteries that need to be replaced prematurely.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Alexandria
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    Although I have not tried this unit.

    $71.99 Needs telephone line.


    http://www.diycontrols.com/product_i...5a0c634ae462ee

    Automatically Calls up to Three Phone Numbers when Freezing Temperatures and/or Power Failures Threaten Your Home or Cabin.

    alarm.png
    Last edited by MangoMike; 08-12-2009 at 08:29 AM.

  8. #8
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    Feb 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
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    Would love to see a seminar by Trace on the inverters and what customization options are available given different situations....

  9. #9
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    Mike,

    That unit looks interesting. Now, if I only had a phone line there. I'll have to talk to the owners and see what might be possible.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Wilsonville, OR 97070
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    Ray if you are sharing a 15amp circuit with out units you maybe in for more problems down the road.

    Have you thought about having a second powerline installed with 50amps and billed to you?

    GregM

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