inverter repair-again

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Bill,

As I pointed out previously the other loads combined with the AC may be pushing the inverter to its limit. I suspect the inverter is overloaded. My refrigerator combined with the current draw from one of my AC units would put the inverter at the limit.

I will not go so far as to suggest the inverter was damaged by the loads, but the inverter was being asked to operate at vitually 100% capacity. Unfortunately I do not know how Royale wired the inverter. On my coach I have the same inverters with separate leads for power input, one for the charging circuit, and one for the pass through power. I have a third set of wires for power back to the isolated inverter circuits in my 120 Volt AC panel. The supply leads are on a dedicated 50 amp circuit breaker. All supply and output leads are #10 wires. My point is that I could probably step my 2500 watt inverters up to 3500 watt without rewiring the coach.

If yours are similarly wired you probably could make a change without pulling new wires. I know my remotes are common to several inverters so I could likely make the inverter change and retain the remotes. This is something you need to investigate to see what your options are.

The two failures you have had are unrelated. One is a failure that prevented you from by-passing any power, and the current failure seems to be a failure only affecting the voltage of the inverter output, but not affecting pass through voltage (if I am reading your post correctly). I think it is just coincidence.

I don't know your skill levels so be careful if you do what follows. If I recall the Royale inverters are accessible. If I had the problems you describe I would access the inverters, and switch out the wires so you are literally reversing the workloads of the two inverters. Then I would run the AC and see if the other inverter pukes. It may mean you just had two coincidental problems, unrelated to inverter loading. I suspect however the inverter is being pushed too hard. If the second inverter also fails you know the answer.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I would be very interested in hearing the thought process that lead to that original design.

Dale I'm also thinking eventually both compressors, fridge and a/c, will try to start simultaneously, potentially causing the failure.

[truk4u]

Another possibility is the front AC has a compressor issue and the start voltage is just too high for the small inverter. Does the same thing happen if you select the mid AC instead of the front?

What type A/C's are on the Royal, roof or cruisair? My cruisairs run at 19 amps and start-up is obviously higher, so a 2500 watt inverter wouldn't stand a chance running any of mine.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Thread drift here......Tom, 19 Amps? those puppies are either putting out some serious cold air or something is wrong.

[Bill1170]

I have been driving all afternoon so the delay.
The inverters are located in the same compartment as the batteries thus only short wires connect. I wondered about why the fridge was on the same inverter as the front AC. There is an electrical panel that all the different circuits hook up to coming from the inverters and so I changed the fridge to the other inverter.

We have a new small lap top and it is not easy to type on so if some words dont look right just guess at them!

I have only owned the coach since May 08 and still have a lot to learn.

When the first inverter went out and I had no power for the fridge I cannot understand why Buddy Gregg folks did not tell me I could switch to the other inverter and the fridge would work, after all that is very important when you have it full of food.

The one thing that I have learned is to know as much as possible about these coaches and I will keep to listening to yall.

I hope to be in Knowville on wed and maybe get some answers. I dont think I want to try the AC on the other inverter and take a chance on damaging it. Maybe better to use the gen.

[Bill1170]

I added to my post that I will keep listening to yall and hope to keep learning about this coach.

[truk4u]

Jon Boy, I knew that would get your attention, but it is what it is, 19 amps consistently. With two on one leg, we have to very careful on power management. I have checked all three A/C's freon, made sure the condensers and evaporator coils are clean and they work great, but really suck the juice.
The cruisairs in my Marathon were also power hogs, but I don't remember the numbers.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Bill a few things come to mind. I would make a list of exactly what things are on what inverters.

Whatever inverter you put the fridge on I would then only add what I knew could not overload it no matter what.

I would put everything else on the other inverter including the roof air.

Being a non OTR A/C I think the option of being able to run 1 air on inverter is significant. I recently test drove a 2000 Marathon in 90 degrees with dash air going + 1 cruise air and with the bedroom door closed it was able to get that bus too cold.

Would I option out a coach like that for death valley certainly not but IMO you will encounter situations often enough where it will preform marvelously.

You have to surrender to the notion that even without running an a/c off inverters you could very easily overload 1 or both of the smaller 2500 w units.

Before I put my a/c on our 2500 I had to manage power. I could not run the microwave with the toaster with the curling iron. I learned to watch my meter and shut things off to use others.

So if the other inverter has everything else and the a/c, for those appliances that only require intermittent power, either run the gen for those or get in the habit of shutting down the a/c to use other accessories while on inverters.

When you learn what is on what inverter you need to familiarize how many amps each accessory draws too.

I know my air draws 13 amp I have a u-line ice maker taking another 2 or 3.

16 amp is about 1900watts. I consider that MAX continuous load for our 2500. Do not expect to run an inverter and get 100% efficiency it will only be around 80% efficient. Even running it there will get things cooking if you get my drift.

If you can replace 1 inverter with a larger one it will help with the power conservation but weather that expense is worth its added convenience is up to you. You will still have to manage power.

You guys with the 2 4000's I'm jellous as hell

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Bill, you are already ahead of the curve because you have evidently been playing with electric and know how your inverter circuits are set up. That means you understand how a failed inverter will not by-pass electric on your coach, and how you can juggle things around to compensate for a failed invererter.

Joe's observations are correct, but i suspect you also probably knew those things as well.

I have said this before, but it bears repeating. These are luxury coaches, we spend serious dollars to buy them and continue to spend money to drive and maintain them. Some of those dollars we spend go for fuel. That fuel is used not only to power the bus down the road, but when needed is used to drive the alternator to produce the electric for the on-board devices. When the big alternator is being asked to provide the electric to charge the batteries which are being run through the inverter to run an AC unit you use fuel for that.

I don't know if you like heat or cold, but regardless it is silly to experience even a little discomfort while in the coach. There are very few times when I can imagine the output of one AC unit will keep us comfortable. If I need cool air up front, you can bet I need it in the middle and rear of the coach also. My point is that as long as you are using fuel to run the big alternator to run an AC anyway, why not just always fire up the generator and turn on the AC's throughout the coach and enjoy a comfortable interior the full length. The added fuel cost will be minimal. I doubt if it will be 1 gallon an hour.

Energy is energy is energy and whether you get it throught the engine, using more fuel, or through the generator, also using fuel it is unimportant. You will always pay for the energy you use.

BTW, I never knew the details of how Royale ran the AC from an inverter, so this thread has been an eye opener. I'm not sure I would ever attempt to load a 2500 watt inverter like that. I think it is pushing it to the limit.

[Bill1170]

Joe & Jon:
It is apparent that both of you are very knowledgeable about these coaches, and I enjoy hearing from you.....

Joe, I agree, it would be nice to be able to run one AC on the inverter, but it doesn't seem possible with my set-up. But, I'm gonna talk to BG about it tomorrow.
Jon, I also agree that it probably just as well to run the generator when AC is needed, or until BG proves otherwise.