diesel fuel in fresh water tank

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Weird is right.

O/K Short now lets have the rest of the story.

If I were done like that by a dealer it would have been noted in the first post. Why wouldn't you?

I apologize for my cynicism.

[Short]

Wow! Thanks for all your replies. To Joe, there really is no rest of the story,,,except that we feel like fools for letting them get us out of there without this being fixed. We did ask if there was water in the tank, we didn't ask if it was potable....we just assumed. We bought this old coach and we asked the dealer to do a thorough check of all systems and fix anything that needed attention. We were specific about air system, water system etc. Several thousand dollars later we were told it was ready to roll. We had a quick 2 hour instruction period with one of the men and then spent the night in the unit in anticipation of leaving the next morning at 6am. That night we realized the water was not right and mentioned it first thing in the morning.
{The dealer was to escort us to the state border}. That is when he replied that it had set a long time and needed to be flushed and that nobody should drink water from the tank.
Yesterday we called the dealer again and again he said it was just residue from work they did on the generator and spilled fuel and that all we needed to do was steam down the generator and flush the tank 2 or 3 times.
We are taking a sample of water for testing today. We will await that result before talking anymore with the dealer.
We truly are novices and feel totally stupid about this so we want to be sure that we are not accusing a dealer of bad service wrongly.
By the way, the unit is a Prevost 1989 XL, Country Coach, 190,000 miles. Do they all smell like diesel at that age?
Thanks for all the replies. Will get back with the water test results.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

We have an 85 and no odor.

[sawdust_128]

What counts now is how the dealer responds. If he does the right thing he has an entire POG forum talking about how honorable he was. If he chooses to turn his back on the problem the conversation on the forum goes in a different direction.

Yep, the genie is out of the bottle on this one for sure.

[flyu2there]

"Yesterday we called the dealer again and again he said it was just residue from work they did on the generator and spilled fuel and that all we needed to do was steam down the generator and flush the tank 2 or 3 times."

While a substantial diesel spill in the generator compartment COULD cause odors inside of the coach I suppose, working on the generator has nothing to do with the issue at hand..........

The short answer () is that water is heavier than diesel. The pick up from the fresh water tank is close to the bottom on CC's, so a smidge of diesel, in theory, would never make it into the system. There is a drain at the bottom of the tank to allow draining any crud that may have settled to the bottom, is that where you sampled the tank? I realize that while you drive you atomize the diesel (shake it up and cause it to mix, sort of) however finding it in the water, smelling it in the coach would certainly suggest far more than a trace amount. That being said, it may well be in the hot water heaters, plumbing, hoses, o rings in faucets, filters and pumps.....anything made of plastic and rubber being the most troublesome to clean. Not sure what your FW Tank is made from but the ever popular food grade neoprene will absorb odor and could be nearly impossible to clean.
Take it back to the dealer....................

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Short,

I think it is safe to say a water system that has had stagnant water, and which has been unused for a while may present some funky odors. But a chlorine mix in the proper concentration should cure that easily.

For a sanitizing mix I use approximately 2 1/2 cups of chlorox in my tank. I fill it and run water through all fixtures, the shower, the sinks, the washer, the toilet, etc. I let everything sit for a few hours, and then I dump the tank and the hot water tank.

I refill with fresh water and run water again through all fixtures to flush them. If you do that you can expect to see some nasty colored water and the strong smell of chlorine. Flush as well as you can and drain and refill the tank again. The odor of chlorine might linger a bit longer, but it will be no worse than what you find in some water supplies.

If your odor issue is water that has been sitting in the system and no diesel that should solve your problem. But diesel is a distinct smell and how he could possibly get it in the water tank just by working on the generator is BS. He's lying.

Do old coaches smell like diesel? Yes if maintenance on them has been poor. There is no reason to have diesel fuel leaks or spill any when servicing the coach. I have 215,000 plus miles on my coach and I defy anyone to smell diesel anywhere on it. Others can say the exact same thing. POG members have coaches with a wide age and mileage spread and yours is not at the extreme for age or miles.

But let's assume this wizard or his crew did get diesel in your water. First, diesel is not going to mix with water. It is hydrophobic meaning it will not mix unless emulsified with some enzyme or solvent. It will sit on the top of the contents of the tank. Especially if you weren't driving the coach, and all you did was live in it over night. Unless you guys were really rocking any diesel fuel that found its way into the tank was sitting on the top of the water.

In order for you to deliver that smell through all your plumbing fixtures more than a film was required on the top of the water, and the tank would have to be drawn down until the pump was pulling diesel through it. Assuming that is all true, there was an ample supply of diesel in your tank at one time, and it was drawn through the system via the pump. So the question becomes was this a problem when the dealer had the coach, and assuming it was why did he not discuss it with you? If all it takes is a steam cleaning and a flush, now's the time to say since the solution is so simple, I will bring you the coach and pick it up when you have it clean.

Name this dealer. We want to know and we want to monitor his support of you.

[sawdust_128]

Jon: There are qualifications to the following:

"But let's assume this wizard or his crew did get diesel in your water. First, diesel is not going to mix with water. It is hydrophobic meaning it will not mix unless emulsified with some enzyme or solvent. It will sit on the top of the contents of the tank. Especially if you weren't driving the coach, and all you did was live in it over night. Unless you guys were really rocking any diesel fuel that found its way into the tank was sitting on the top of the water."

1. Diesel will emulsify into water without an enzyme. What it won't do is stay emulsified (suspended) without an enzyme or surfactant. The cloudy water sample tells me that it is suspended in emulsion and/or in solution.

2. Diesel is not a single substance. Some components of diesel fuel are more hydroscopic than others. The net is that some components of diesel fuel disperse into water and become separated from the main volume of fuel by aqueous extraction.

(From Global Security's web site)
"Short-term hazards of the some of the lighter, more volatile and water soluble compounds (such as toluene, ethylbenzene, and xylenes) in diesels include potential acute toxicity to aquatic life in the water column (especially in relatively confined areas) as well as potential inhalation hazards. Diesel fuels have moderate volatility and moderate solubility. Diesel products possess moderate to high acute toxicity to biota with product-specific toxicity related to the type and concentration of aromatic compounds. Diesel spills could result in potential acute toxicity to some forms of aquatic life. Oil coating of birds, sea otters, or other aquatic life which come in direct contact with the spilled oil is another potential short-term hazard. In the short term, spilled oil will tend to float on the surface; water uses threatened by spills include: recreation; fisheries; industrial, potable supply; and irrigation.

Long-term potential hazards of the some of the lighter, more volatile and water soluble compounds (such as toluene and xylenes) in diesel fuels include contamination of groundwater. Long-term water uses threatened by spills include potable (ground) water supply. Chronic effects associated with middle distillates are mainly due to exposure to aromatic compounds."

[flyu2there]

Woodchips,

Now you are my hero, I am going to forward my earned "Demerit" ( a true badge of honor) to you
Oh, and by the way is that surficant or suficant...inquiring minds wanna know...........

[sawdust_128]

Woodchips,

Now you are my hero, I am going to forward my earned "Demerit" ( a true badge of honor) to you
Oh, and by the way is that surficant or suficant...inquiring minds wanna know...........

Flipuoff2: It is neither of those. It is surfactant.

sur·fac·tant - an agent that reduces the surface tension of liquids so that the liquid spreads out, rather than collecting in droplets, e.g. a detergent or a drug

The term surfactant is a blend of surface acting agent. Surfactants are usually organic compounds that are amphiphilic, meaning they contain both hydrophobic groups (their "tails") and hydrophilic groups (their "heads"). Therefore, they are soluble in both organic solvents and water. The term surfactant was coined by Antara products in 1950.

Hydrophobic - water hating.
Hydrophilic - water loving.

I think you should keep the demerit, send me $10's and $20's instead.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

We in aviation are in trouble.

All this time we sump our tanks thinking the water and fuel will not mix. Another OWT debunked.