Florida Trip - Bus Shoppin...

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim,

On the front of this site is the link to a lot of information about buying one.

If you didn't want to use some of that information asking the following on this forum would have roused the troops:

"I am contemplating buying a bus, what should I look for?"

If a question like that from a potential buyer was posted you would have been buried in advice. The only job you would have would be to separate the BS from good advice. (Not that there is ever any BS on this forum.) That question is about as far from being a technical one as you can possibly get.

One thing is for certain, you would have been advised to check tire dates, battery dates, have Detroit and Allison pull the codes and you would have asked for a review of the maintenance records.

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen sellers suck in the unaware by showing them the tread depth on their 6 year old tires (covered with tire dressing) and explaining how they can get another 100,000 miles from the tires. Go to some of the sites on the internet and see how many buses are advertised with the tread depth listed, but not any date codes.

I think we have even suggested here that before money changes hands buyers either live in the coach or spend a lot of time operating every switch dial and control to make sure everything works. Doing stuff like that goes a long way to sorting out fact from fiction. Nothing technical there.

My point is we all, me included were overwhelmed when we first decided to buy the coach. Knowing I was in way over my head I prevailed upon the expert, Don Hoffman to do the inspection. He did not have a dog in the fight. He didn't care if I bought the coach or not. All he did was operate everything and evaluate everything, methodically, and with attention to detail. I didn't do anything technical. I watched. When it was all over he told me he could not find anything that did not work or that needed any attention.

A new buyer, not confident of their skills can probably do an inspection, but it is far better to get a third party to do it. The only exception is if the purchase is from an established converter who will stand behind the coach. In that case I would not drive away until I lived in the coach, found how to work everything, got the defects repaired, and went through some training.

While on the topic of training, when I bought my first one it was Harvery Mitchell who told me originally the coach was a good one and to buy it rather than look at the coaches he had at his dealership. Then he offered to do the training for me, and he was good to his word. He provided four days of hookup at his facility and every day he had his people visit us and teach the systems and how everything worked. He showed us what kind of a first class guy he was and is. My point being even someone with no clue can access resources so there are no surprises.

[jelmore]

Jon, you are far sharper than I in these matters. Appreciate your wisdom.

[GDeen]

Freshly involved in the process, I have experienced some interesting assertions made by salesmen along the way. Only through reading here and wearing out Jon and others with email questions ahead of time did I know them to be BS when they were broached.

A sampling:

"You buy from them, you better be ready to add tires, batteries, bags, and Norgren valves and that will set you back $40k." (remember Jon when I asked you directly for those costs ahead of my FL trip? Came in handy).

"You better keep $10k in the cookie jar to fix that OTR compressor."

"I have never heard of 3 cruiseairs not cooling a 45' coach - 3 is overkill already."

"their product is no better than a manufactured coach as many as they run off the line."

(finger stuck in tread) "oh you got at least 50% left here - you are good to go." (on a coach that was purportedly all new on wearable items)

Will I get it completely right? No, but I think I have an idea of how to at least not have them snickering when I drive away.

Jim, unfortunately your point carries over to the convertor as well as the slick individual sellers. Buyer beware and be prepared. Most importantly, I like dealing with people known to be of integrity and honesty who along the way give you no reason to believe them to be anything different. Unfortunately sometimes they just don't have a coach that will work for you, and then you really can't let down your guard.

[chtree]

The POG members were a real wealth of information and help in the long process of our finding and purchasing a coach. We also were lucky enough to have Don and Tim Hoffman look at our prospects. Hoffman Coach is two miles from our shop and I grew up watching the busses drive in and out of there place.

[0533]

Jon has it right, and says it best in my opinion.

Jon Wrote: "I think we have even suggested here that before money changes hands buyers either live in the coach or spend a lot of time operating every switch dial and control to make sure everything works. Doing stuff like that goes a long way to sorting out fact from fiction. Nothing technical there".

If you can drive into a dealer/sellers yard, inspect the bus or buses you are interested, in take a test drive, have it inspected by a third respected party you trust (I am not available by the way) then do what Jon suggested, bring your tooth brush, sleeping bag and ask the owner/dealer if you can spend the night. test everything, cook a meal, use the dishwasher, do a load of laundry, have coffee using the Insta Hot, take a shower, fill the water, check the inverter values while under load, use the TV, in all rooms, microwave, test the spot light, backup camera, all Wabasto heaters (even in the summer, crank up the heat temps and let it fly, same with the air, blast it out, place a temp gauge in the outlets, run out the slides, do as much as you can in the 18 hours. I would also unplug the old girl and see how the batteries work under pure inverter, under the genset all of it. Make a check list, Marathon and others actually have such a list that you could ask for, check it off make notes, everything you do, any issues you find will save you real $$, and might well make the difference between a NO/Yes on the purchase.

I bet some dealers/owners will flinch if you ask to do this (insurance liability will be the answer) but demand it, you are in the drivers seat, if it does not work, is broken, you will be surprised what you will find when you tip the bus upside down.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Full disclosure......

When I bought our current coach I bought it from Buddy Gregg in Knoxville. I had no expectations and bought it as is, where is.

My wife and I went through it for a few hours, but before sealing the deal I wanted to get at the underside. After I checked out everything I could in the house, and after having driven the bus I was confident the bus was a good one.

When it was brought to my garage I got under it and spent about an hour checking stuff I could not see from above. So the total time we spent during the evaluation was about three hours total.

But as a couple who had a coach for 14 years we knew exactly what to expect from every switch and device and it did not take very long to evaluate its condition. We coupled that with the fact that what we paid was substantially less than the market price for similar coaches so I could afford to overlook some serious problems because in my view I was money ahead. The key here was even if something as serious as having to replace both the engine and transmission showed up, I was still buying it cheaper than any other I could find.

As it turns out Buddy Gregg replaced every single battery, put on two new tires so the oldest tires were only three years old, and they left me with a bay full of every fluid, belt, filter and part I would need to do a 100% maintenance on the entire coach to "zero" out the entire maintenance schedule. They were outstanding to deal with and unexpectedly so considering it was what I considered an as-is purchase.

Obviouisly the second coach purchase took far less time than the first and I did not rely on anyone else. As it turns out Kim Sloan (a POG member and the original previous owner) obviously took care of the coach because not only did everything work, but it has proven very reliable.

A purchase does not have to be a long drawn out inspection process if as an owner you are comfortable doing your own systems checks. I contrasted my second purchase with the first in which I needed to take my time and use third parties because we didn't have a clue. As a newbie I would always get all the help and advice I could. There is no sin in recognizing the first experience with these things is daunting, but after some experience the comfort level ramps up very fast.

[0533]

Jon,

Your comments about Buddy Gregg bring back memories for me. There are some folks who give Buddy Gregg a bad wrap, but I had a similar experience to you back in the mid 80's when I purchased my Beaver (great plastic coach back then). The folks at Buddy Gregg Florida were outstanding at every turn.

I lived in New England at the time, left the Beaver in Lakeland Fl at Buddy Gregg's at N/C just let him show it as an example of the size and model in exchange.

Back in the Mid 80's I used to have one of those bag Cell Phones, the big black bags with a real phone in them. While flying to Florida at 30K feet I used to call Buddy Gregg and ask him to start the Beaver, check all systems and told him I would be there at a certain time once I landed in Orlando, kept a Jeep at the Orlando Airport in the winter. Those were the days when you could call from the air skip all the way to your final destination and guess what the aircraft did not fall out of the sky as a result.

Good experience, today I do not know what to expect from them , but back then they were great.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I had previously had a very bad experience with his organization to the point where I had zero respect for Buddy Gregg and his company.

The reason I treated this purchase as an as-is purchase was because I had no expectations of getting good service or support. They had a bus we wanted and the price was substantially better than any other we could negotiate anywhere else, so I held my nose and went ahead with the deal.

The entire organization in Knoxville at the time outdid themselves. It changed my lousy opinion of the organization. They went far beyond what I expected and made repairs I never expected them to do because they were things I found in the inspection and assumed I would be fixing them. (Simple stuff like the Braun antenna had a glitch)

The sales rep obviously listened as my wife and I discussed things we found in the inspection that required tweaking or adjustment or a minor repair and they did those things on their own without our knowledge. The only way we found out was when we came to pick up the coach the techs were wrapping things up and I admit my mouth must have dropped open in awe.

[GDeen]

Bruce, looks like 533 is on the Marathon pre-owned list eh? Changes in the works?

[garyde]

When I purchased my Coach, I had asked Liberty if they could just deliver it to me in Nevada. That is not their policy. You have to come out to their facility and spend time with the Coach and the Liberty people. Get acquainted with everything and everyone. Stay as long as you feel comfortable, and work thru all of the questions and issues. Now, I was in a hurry to get on the road, but I did spend a day and night there living in the coach. All was good.