Florida Trip - Bus Shoppin...

[GDeen]

Actually Liberty has a 98 Liberty that has been on their inventory for a long time. I looked at it when making a deal on our Royale. It appeared to be a beauty and would imagine that it could be had for a very good price. Would suggest however that the PDI should be monitored very carefully to make sure all discrepancies are found and dealt with. A second (unbiased) set of eyes would be a good idea. My experience in dealing with the folks at Stuart was very good and they were more than willing to rectify the issues that I asked them to take care of.

They actually have a couple of interesting buses Brian that have been around for a while. We shall see how interested they are in selling them.

One question - are you basically saying don't trust them with the PDI although if you do happen to catch something they will be happy to fix it? I understand the general terms of buyer beware but am just curious if you experienced any particulars?

[BrianE]

Gordon,

It seemed to me that there are a couple of scenarios with a Liberty resale. If they have done their full prep on the bus, it probably has new batteries, a very nice interior and exterior detail, new tires if they are not almost perfect, a very good normal service with all fluids (maybe excluding coolant) being drained and replaced and a very thorough functional check of systems. In my case some of these items were negotiated in the sale and I expect that may have been a result of the changes in the economy. All I'm suggesting is that they are very capable of excellent service. It may be however, that your inspection may determine the extent of the PDI....Hence the suggestion of a second set of eyes and your own check of system functionality.

With regard to coolant. If there is no record of recent replacement, and you don't have the inclination to do it yourself, would suggest you bite the bullet if necessary and have them do it with extended life coolant. Since the Liberty uses the Webasto heating system the process of changing and bleeding the system is somewhat involved. If you were to have them do this service, get involved, take notes and snap some digitals. You'll be glad you did.

[GDeen]

Good advice - thanks Brian.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Gordon,

I think speaking generically that everything is negotiable when buying a coach. Instead of accepting the representation that all maintenance is up to date, I suggest you see the proof for yourself in the form of receipts. Match what has been done against the recommended maintenance schedule.

If there are no receipts and you accept someone's word, I would like to talk to you about a bridge I have up in Brooklyn.

In the absence of documentation I would suggest you pick a number that represents what you feel the maintenance will cost you to "zero" out the maintenance so you have a starting point for all recommended scheduled maintenance. At least that way you know when everything has been done and you start the maintenance as though the coach were new.

As Brian says coolant is a consideration, and since it is a pain to change you need to determine how to value that.

I would buy from a dealer with the proviso they zero out all maintenance and time related items, such as 10 year old air bags. Every dealer justifies their prricing on the basis of a coach bought from them has had a complete going over, so make that happen or get a price that is in the range of a private sale price. I would have no problem buying from a dealer As-Is if the price reflected that.

If buying from an individual recognize as soon as the wheels leave his driveway you are on your own. In fact once money changes hands you are on your own. The price needs to reflect the risk, and you probably should have someone very familiar with coaches (and who is completely impartial) go through the coach and report the findings. If everything does not work then you and the seller need to decide how it will be handled. No matter who you buy from at the very least get Detroit and Allison to read the codes and give a report on the condition of the engine or transmission.

If you do not get specific on the coach you want, but are open to anything available within a broad price range it is gong to be very hard to determine a fair price. Once you zero in on a particular conversion you can do the research to find out a price range and as you look at various representations of the desired coach you will know it is right. You will have the eureka moment.

[merle&louise]

Gordon,

That green & white 2001 Vantare is BEAUTIFUL! That one has my vote; hope you can make a good deal on it. Tell Ken Robertson to give you a TUGA discount (1/2 off)

[GDeen]

I like the Tuga discount! That is a pretty snappy paint job isn't it???

As usual Jon, thanks for your sage advice....

[0533]

I am with Jon on this. Before I made any offer I would want to see every receipt for every service and upgrade that has been done to this bus by both the dealer and the previous owner.

Personally if the dealer could not, would not offer this, i would move on without exception.

Have you considered having a Carfax done for the bus, accidents etc. When i made my purchase I required that the seller warrantee that the bus had not been in an accident, had no damage, fire, other major damage that could pop it's little head up at a later date.

I have purchased a lot of larger boats over the years. Pirates started on the water than moved onto land to sell boats, and I got my buyers masters degree buying used boats over the years, made every mistake possible. I liken Buses to boats and feel that sellers (both dealers, private sellers) have and will forget to offer important details that might provide important facts about the purchase.

I am still convinced that the purchase price is only 66.66% of the selling price. The remaining 33.33% is after the purchase, and the only way one can close the gap is to be a fully informed buyer.

There is no bus, boat, plane on the planet that is a good deal if it has sat for a long time without being carefully maintained, run, serviced, and all surfaces cared for, paint, roof, interior surfaces, leather, wood work, ceiling all of it.

That is the stuff you can see, the rest is the really hard to consider.

Add it all up and you have the answer to your buying question. Add or subtract the stuff that is there, has been done or neglected.

[GDeen]

I am still convinced that the purchase price is only 66.66% of the selling price. The remaining 33.33% is after the purchase, and the only way one can close the gap is to be a fully informed buyer.

Wow - that is a little scary -plan on adding 50% to the purchase price to get it right??

I appreciate your insight and suggestions Bruce. I guess main take away point is check out everything humanly possible ahead of the deal.

[phorner]

All good advice. It definitely pays real dividends to be an informed buyer.

That being said, don't let the "technical" side of searching for a bus overwhelm the fun of shopping!

It takes serious money to purchase and maintain a Prevost bus. But the "adventure" of ownership is priceless.

My only point is that you can't be so consumed with trying not to make a single mistake that you miss out on the enjoyment of ownership.

Once you're satisfied that the "major" stuff is acceptable, you can probably be a little less critical in your scrutiny.

Just my opinion...... I simply want to encourage you to enjoy the search as much as possible and try not to make it into another "job".....

[0533]

I exaggerated the values somewhat, but it is important to set aside enough $ mentally during the negotiating process so you do not get burned. Again without good supporting paperwork then one must assume the seller is either sloppy, has something to hide, or is so forgetful that he has forgotten more than the paperwork. Also the bus like an aircraft, allow for an hourly operating cost. Jon is really good with these numbers and can give you a better insight on these expenses.

I would not steer away from ownership because of this, but just be fully informed when shopping. there are some great dealers and brokers out there and I know we have several on POG who are good standing members. Not all are as good as our POG friends and have little to gain by telling you about all the stuff that needs to be done while you are inspecting a potential bus.

Good luck and we all hope you find the right bus.