replacement air springs

[bluevost]

Hey POGgers,

This is a continuation of Jon's thread of a couple of days ago regarding the front air springs (bags). March of '08 I had both front air springs changed. There was nothing wrong with them, but going on the 10 year rule, they came out and new ones installed. Sure enough, the new bags are 63-0259. In checking the old bags, they were indeed 63-0126 dated 22Apr94.

Ray Davis and I went out to the hanger today and did a little experiment, if you will. I brought the bus up to ride height and measured from the ground to the frame in front of the tow hooks. Ride height is 9 3/8". Then Ray worked the level lo to raise the front end up, engine still running. The bus only raised to 10 5/8, only a 1 1/4 " gain. Ray then raised the tag, and worked the level lo and the bus raised up to 15 1/2", a gain of over 6". Then he put the tag down and the front end settled at 15 1/8" and stayed there. Interesting isn't it??

Anybody got an answer for why the level lo did not raise the front end of the bus to 15 1/2 without raising the tag?

In addition to the 63-0126 number on the old bag is 1R11-096. Could this be the Goodyear part number, and could this bag still be available through Goodyear?

Happy New Year,

Ken

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ken,

I will do some checking later to see if I can discern the difference. Right now it appears the 630126 is what the Goodyear number code defines as a nominal 11" diameter. The "footprint" size determines how much pressure is required to lift the coach, a smaller size being less capable and needing help such as lifting the tag.

The ability to lift the front end is critical not only for leveling, but to avoid damage when approaching a steep incline that normal road height cannot clear such as a driveway transition.

I have 1R11-296 listed as the Goodyear number for the 630126 but I will check out the 1R11-096 number.

[truk4u]

Good job Ken & Ray, I suspect mine will do about the same with 259's, although I haven't measured it. We're on the road to Florida and I'll do the same check and see what I get. I've done it with shop air, but I didn't measure.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'll let Joe or Eric or Debbie post, but they resolved the problem they were having. Their bus goes all the way up with relatively low air pressure now and if I understand it they have 14,000# on the front axle.

[truk4u]

Jon,

Without me going back through all the posts, what bags solved their problem?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

630259 If my memory is correct. I was hoping Joe C. or Eric and Deb would fill in the details.

According to Joe the bus would barely get to ride height and they had to do some gyrations to get there. Again, if I don't have the numbers screwed up the ones Prevost sent were 630260, which are for a seated coach.

After realizing the front would not come up properly they changed air pressure and verified the problem was not that.

The 259 bags that they put on are the same as the 630126 that are on mine and Jim's bling mobile and that work fine. They will run the bus up to max height with a little over 100# which is what my bus requires, and it will go all the way down for an 8" range. Ride height is exactly in the middle of the range which is how it should be. FWIW, ride height should be 11.5" between top and bottom mounting plates and fully raised it should be 15.5" between plates.

Since both our buses are within a few hundred pounds on the front and they are getting the same performance now I would say the 259 bags are a replacement for the 126.

Joe told me the diameters of the 259 and 126 are the same, and that is the critical measurement when it comes to how much pressure is required to lift the coach.

[gmcbuffalo]

Going back to the raising problem. I tried the other day to raise the front up to put a set of Jon's stands under the it. Could not get the front high enough to put the 14" under it. I raised the tag but no luck. Got out the "air over" raised it up. I was going to check the numbers on the shocks so I could get another set. They are Monroes 630134, on the Monroe website they are listed for Provest XL's drive axles. 630136 are suppost to be on the front. So the question is do the driver axle shocks have less travel than the fronts and tag shocks? Could this be why I could not get the front raise that last 1/2" to put the stands under it? When I rasied it with the jacks I think I got the extra travel from the tires.
GregM

[gmcbuffalo]

Another website list the 630136 for IFS buses. The tag is the same as the drive axle. No info for the front.
GregM

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Greg I have snapped the eyelets off a couple of front shocks over the past few years on our bus. This was before I became as proactive as I have become now but think it probably happened while in level-low trying to get level on a crooked spot.

Looks like we both may have the wrong ones on the front.

The front shocks on an IFS have a threaded stem on the bottom not an eyelet.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I just had the opportunity to do another suspension replacement it is the second in short order and on 99 and 98 chassis.

Up until now I have not had the opportunity to get anything of this vintage. So now, Ive seen three distinct differences in air delivery: valves, plumbing, hose diameter and fitting configurations.

The 98 and 99 both XL's with a small air tank attached to every bag.

Warrens 95 Did not have this so some where between 98 and 95 this change occurred. Lots of hose diameters and fittings are different. The 95 does have those wonderful non reusable push in type supplying the bags, 1/2 in plastic line.

99/98 has 5/8 and 3/4 plastic supply line going into the bags were it is 1/2 in pipe. All push-in "non-reusable" fittings.

If you are replacing bags you had better have replacements on hand because you will need some. The norgrens are plumbed goofy too. One 5/8 plastic line into a old style compression, good. Then 2 other ports are 1/2 plastic ( 1 elbow 1-T)"non-reusable type into the valve at 3/8 pipe", bad. Finally the valves have 1/4 in female pipe to both the old style and non reusable ends I am adding all those fittings to my tackle box.

The 98/99 has 3 different type hose ends feeding the brake chambers on the rear: 4 with 1 time compressed ends made to length, bad. 2 with reusable ends and 4 plastic good.

Plastic is preferable to rubber but can only be used when there is NO movement between the two ends.

This latest bus got all new brass reusable 2 piece brake hose ends where they did not previously exist and all new rubber hose for the remainder (the steer axle service brake lines and the drive maxi line already had the reusable 2 piece ends) All of the air bag fittings were changed to old style.

All the norgrens ports are 3/8 female pipe and 1/8 female pipe to the ends, for ALL years, Hallelujah

The have changed the ride height valves to these little--------. made them way smaller and cheaper to produce and still charge the same.

IMO the old ones are way more robust. Again the 95 and older have them. They look like they would bolt right in the 98/99 but possibly a fitting change or two. This probably changed with the addition of the air bag tanks between 97/98, guessing.

IMO these push-in fittings work wonderfully when being used for the first time but once the seal is disrupted, such as when you pull the air bag and the fitting is now 8 or 10 yr old, it is a crap shoot if they will seal.

If you replace them and it is with the "old style" with the Ferrell the initial cost is slightly less than push-in and you have a more permanent seal and the next time you have to disassemble it it requires a Ferrell at less than a buck. The drawback is it increases the labor involved on removing valves in some tight spots. The push-ins cost more and have the potential to fail after 1 use but make removal a snap and they look slick. The Liberty guys could clear-coat them too

I got off the train in a small town in Ohio w/o a station only a platform at 4 AM in a snow sleet slop storm. I got the perfect cab driver. If Debbie were with me I'd of had to slow this guy way down or she would have got out. He made 45 mile or so in the same amount of minutes on 2 lane with 6 or 8 in of slop and snow ruts. As long as there is cab drivers like this who needs a lisence! The day brought heavy snow just like a day we would beg for when we were younger, an additional 8 or 10 inches of powder! I enjoyed the day in a heated garage workin on a camper eating like a king. Ain't life grand.