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Thread: Bag, valve or fitting?

  1. #21
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    He's about to put your wallet on a diet if it was his facility that spent four hours with soapy stuff. My confidence level when the so called experts need that much time with soapy stuff just went negative.

    And I'm betting he won't listen to a word of advice from a civilian.

    Me being a cynic has the inability to believe an air bag that probably has about 90 PSI inside it will leak in one position and not another.

    Hector....now that I have been so harsh, do you agree with my analysis? Jim's Liberty has accumulator tanks tied in with the air bags and we have to presume they are leak free, and his three port up front that is a universal air exhaust on other coaches, is unique to the front air bags only. Two three port electrically operated Norgrens are supplied for the left and right rear to funtion as their exhaust.

    With the coach dropping when the tag is raised the theory would be the rear air bag is definitely out of consideration as a problem as is the 3 port valve, but that would not necessarily rule out the three port valve leaking sideways out the end cap(s)

  2. #22
    dreamchasers Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg View Post
    He's about to put your wallet on a diet if it was his facility that spent four hours with soapy stuff. My confidence level when the so called experts need that much time with soapy stuff just went negative.

    And I'm betting he won't listen to a word of advice from a civilian.

    Me being a cynic has the inability to believe an air bag that probably has about 90 PSI inside it will leak in one position and not another.

    Hector....now that I have been so harsh, do you agree with my analysis? Jim's Liberty has accumulator tanks tied in with the air bags and we have to presume they are leak free, and his three port up front that is a universal air exhaust on other coaches, is unique to the front air bags only. Two three port electrically operated Norgrens are supplied for the left and right rear to funtion as their exhaust.

    With the coach dropping when the tag is raised the theory would be the rear air bag is definitely out of consideration as a problem as is the 3 port valve, but that would not necessarily rule out the three port valve leaking sideways out the end cap(s)
    Jon,

    I do agree with your analysis, with comments.

    In your post #14, you stated that with the ignition key in the off position, any of the three air systems have no impact on the suspension system. That is definitely true for models ~1996 and above. However, ~1996 and older coaches, the tag axle 'controls' are sourced from the auxiliary air connection in the rear of the coach. These Norgrens require air pressure to remain engergized. If aux air pressure is lost, the norgrens in this control circuit will release, with the result of air being dumped from the tag axle. The four main drive axle air bags, two on each dual, are unaffected by this action. Also, the front air bags are also unaffected by this action. Prevost has issued a service bulletin #96-14B, Air System Improvements, that reverses the tag axle logic to the standards of the newer coaches.

    Concerning 'Bubba' at the Prevost Service Center. He replaced the most rear air bag, passenger side, on my coach. He replaced it late in the evening, while having an extended conversation on his cell phone. (When I got the coach home I diagnosed the pesky leak as a cracked air fitting on top of the air bag he replaced??) After placing my coach on their lifts three separate times (and days), each time additional leaking components were found? and the repair bill continued to escalate each time.

    My experience with Prevost Fort Worth has not been good. The good thing I can saw, is they did honor their warranty. It only took three separate trips (500 miles round trip) from Livingston to Fort Worth to resolve a leaking rear wheel seal. Bubba was not the service manager when I had my coach at Prevost Fort Worth.

    As far as air bags leaking in one position and not another position. I have not experience with this dilemma. But anything is possible??

    Jelmore, I would be glad to chat with concerning my experiences, give me a call 936-328-7881. I will be available until 8:30 pm this evening, CST.

    Hector

  3. #23
    jelmore Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamchasers View Post

    Jelmore, I would be glad to chat with concerning my experiences, give me a call 936-328-7881. I will be available until 8:30 pm this evening, CST.

    Hector
    Hector, thanks. We spent too much time out on the town tonight. Missed the chance to chat.

    Hope it goes well in the morning. I feel well armed, sort of.

  4. #24
    jelmore Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg View Post
    He's about to put your wallet on a diet if it was his facility that spent four hours with soapy stuff

    ...snip...

    With the coach dropping when the tag is raised the theory would be the rear air bag is definitely out of consideration as a problem as is the 3 port valve, but that would not necessarily rule out the three port valve leaking sideways out the end cap(s)
    Jon, I like that three port valve leaking sideways theory. It may cost a hundred bucks, but I'll run that past them.

  5. #25
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    Jim,

    Rather than debate the three port valve theory, and allow them to mess with your finances a bit before they finally get around to it, why not get them to replace it, no questions asked.

    The worst that will happen is I've been wrong, I made you spend $56 for the valve and 1/2 hour to change it. It's coming up on 9 years of age anyway so its life is nearly over. If that was not it at least you haven't paid for more soapy solution and that can be ruled out.

    BTW, if Hector has agreed with my analysis I feel very confident in it because he is unmatched in analyzing these systems and taking the complexity out of understanding them.

  6. #26
    jelmore Guest

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    This was a very minor repair. Drain valves in the quick-fill tanks were leaking. Two had been replaced six months ago and the thread sealer had failed. The o-ring in the older one had failed. The soap bubbles were obvious. They replaced all three valves. Joe and Bubba (Ft. Worth) got together on this and it went very quickly. Bubba knows how this system works and Joe is a sharp mechanic. The valves don't leak -- they were tested by removing hoses and listening with a stethoscope.

    Result? Overnight at 34°, nothing has moved.

    I've learned way more than I ever knew there was to know about how this system is put together. Pilot lines, LevelLo, Liberty patches, valves, tanks, bags. It's an amazing system and with some knowledge of it, probably not difficult to diagnose a problem. I don't know why the techs aren't better trained on this or why they don't put specialists on these things. I imagine there's a huge amount of money wasted on repairs like this.

    Thanks all for the help.

  7. #27
    jelmore Guest

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    Just reread my post and wanted to make it clear ... the air leaks were in the three quick-fill tanks drain valves. The 5-way and the two 3-way Norgren valves, the fittings and the air bags had no leaks.

  8. #28
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    So, Jim, are you suggesting that these drain valves be replaced as a matter of air suspension system maintenance when the all the rest of the system (air bags, Norgren valves) is replaced?

    Is it prudent to change them out at the same time since the material costs are minimal and you have a better "guarantee" of a leak-free project?

    What's next.....replacing all the air tanks too ???

  9. #29
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    This tidbit is from post #19.

    "As to replacing the drains on the tanks....they have nothing to do with the leans."
    __________________


    When Jon gets back from visiting with Roger I'm sure he will have something to say!


    JIM

  10. #30
    jelmore Guest

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    These tanks are the quick-fill tanks -- there is one for each air bag, and all of this is downstream from the 5-way valve that lets air into this left rear part of the suspension. If any single item downstream from the 5-way valve leaks, then that area of the suspension will drop. In my case, it was the drains on those tanks. Very easy to see with the soap bubbles, very easy to repair. If they don't leak, then I'd guess don't change them out. If they do leak, if the bubbles are around the threads, the resealing would fix that. If the bubbles are from around the drain handle, then the o-ring inside the valve has failed and the valve needs to be replaced.

    Jon, correct me please if this is wrong. But this is the word from these guys here in Ft. Worth, and I was under the bus with them the entire time while this was being done.

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