Wet Cell Batteries

[dale farley]

While at Spearfish, I determined that I had one bad inverter. I ordered a new one from Xantrex. My old one may have been bad for a while since I was plugged into AC for the 5 months I was in Yellowstone, so I hadn't noticed a problem with the inverter. Upon closer inspection, I also determined that I had a bad 300 Amp T Series fuse.

Since my batteries are easily accessible, I pulled them partially out at Spearfish and decided that they all needed water. At that time, there was no sign that there had ever been any acid boil over. I added water until the level reached the bottom of the filler tube. This was obviously a mistake. Some of them boiled water/acid out on the way home. I removed all of them, washed the racks, wire brushed and sanded them, applied Ospho, primed and painted any metal that had been affected. A lot of trouble for something I caused myself. The batteries are about 2 1/2 years old, and when I checked the voltage, I determined that two of them are bad. After charging overnight, they go to 10.5 volts as soon as a test load is applied. I checked the new ones I bought today, and the water level is about 1/2 inch below the bottom of the filler tube. That may sound insignificant but that is a lot of water in each cell.

I don't know if my inverter went bad and blew the 300 Amp fuse and damaged my two batteries, if the fuse went bad and caused the inverter to fail, or the batteries went bad and caused the whole problem. I do know that I caused myself considerable trouble by over filling the batteries.

I know, I could have AGM batteries and not had this problem. I also know it was really nice to get 8D batteries for $145 each. Since this appears to be the first problem with the batteries and since they are very easy to access, I couldn't see buying all AGMs just because two of mine are bad. Of course, if I had AGMs, I might be buying 2 of them if the inverter was the cause of the problem.

The first picture was after I had washed, sanded and applied Ospho to the racks, so they look worse than before I started. There was no damage from battery acid, but there was a little surface rust. The white in the picture is the Ospho I applied.

[dale farley]

I am not sure if the 300 Amp T Series fuses are only found on the CC conversions. There are 2 on my bus, and they are located in the fuse panel between the two inverters. I do assume that any Prevost with similar inverters has similar fuses, since they are mentioned in the Xantrex operator's manual.

When I started searching for a replacement I was surprised to find that the cost was from $48 to $98 on the internet. The local prices were $65-$95 with a 5-day delivery. After much searching, I finally found a source that will deliver the fuse for $28. If anyone ever needs one of these, here is a good source.

John Drake Services, Inc.
1427 E. 68th Street
Long Beach, CA 90805
562-423-4879
www.solarseller.com

[garyde]

Hi Dale. I discovered one or more of my batteries (Gel type) was bad at the Rally as well. It was gassing off pretty bad. I checked with Liberty and they recommended replacing with Gel again. As my batteries are in the belly of the coach, it does not make sense to have water filled.
My Country coach had 4 water filled batteries and I replaced all 4 when one went bad as the charge rate and the load rate would have been a problem in replacing just one.
My Liberty batteries are in parrallel/Series which basically means I need to replace all 4 of them. Jim Skiff gave me Lifelines phone # and has set up a discount for POG members.
Jon recommended Glass matt batteries so I am kind of weighing the two types.

[dale farley]

Ted, I wondered about some plastic trays, but maybe they don't want to hold the acid in that area if it boils out. Evidently, there had been no previous problem, because the area was spotless before I over filled the batteries. The area under the batteries has wire mesh. I assume this is to allow ventilation. A plastic tray would reduce that ventilation.

Gary, I was also a little concerned about replacing two of the batteries, but I charged them with an external charger, then checked the voltage after applying a load test, and the voltage is virtually the same on all batteries, so I don't think there will be a charging problem. I hated to throw away 4 batteries that are only 2 1/2 years old. I also talked to the people at Interstate Batteries, and they said there should not be a problem with charging all 6 as long as they were all in good condition.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Dale,

There is a cost consideration, a maintenance issue, and a hassle factor to consider when any of us has to deal with replacing batteries.

There is no way I would ever want lead acid batteries in your set up. First, I expect well maintained sealed batteries (AGM or Gel) will never require you to service them with water, clean corroded terminals or spill acid. There is a value there. Second, your set lasted about half the life to be expected of the AGM or Gel so the cost consideration is not so cut and dried. But in my mind the biggest draw back to replacing with lead acid is the fumes in the enclosed space with electrical gear sharing that space. Consider me silly but I want my hydrogen gas producing batteries out in the open and well ventilated.

I think replacing two is false economy unless you don't expect to do any dry camping, in which case just leave the two bad ones in the trash and use the four remaining ones.

[Tully]

I have just run into a problem with my batteries as well.

I bought (4) Excide 950cld crank batteries back in April. No problems.

My bus has been sitting in my parking lot for the last 5 weeks. I went to start the bus and- nothing.

I did notice that I neglected to shut of the two main power switches in the back and suspect that is the cause of the battery drain.

My question, I have pulled each battery out and have charged them. I put a volt meter on them and cannot get a reading above 10.5 volts. All of them ready between 8- 10.5 volts. This is after doing a full charge on them.

I used a 10amp automatic charger that will charge to capacity and then shut off.

No luck. I did check the levels and they appear to be fine.

Are the batteries bad if I cannot get a reading about 10.5 volts. Could all four batteries go bad? Seems odd?

I am going to take all four batteries back to Chicao International Trucks where I purchased them and have them tested.

If all four are bad, I would assume since they are only five months old I would get some type of refund or pro-rated refund?


Tully

[Kenneth Brewer]

Dale; My unsolicited comment and advice:

"But in my mind the biggest draw back to replacing with lead acid is the fumes in the enclosed space with electrical gear sharing that space. Consider me silly but I want my hydrogen gas producing batteries out in the open and well ventilated." - Jon

Amen. I don't know how long the coach is intended to be kept, but with 19 years and counting on my '84 Bluebird, which is 'built like a tank' and came with lead cells, I can tell you a price will be paid for keeping wet lead cell batteries within the confines of a metal coach without, at the least, enclosing and venting the batteries. I would not do this for a week; the corrosion is very hard (if not impossible) to stop even after trying to neutralize the acid depostion on surrounding surfaces, once it begins. I am not making a value judgement on what was done - just please consider this advice.

As for mixing significantly older batteries with new ones on the same charging circuit; been there and done that too, with the result that (and I don't remember which one to swear on, but I think the newer one(s) get cooked because the older ones are harder to get the nominal full charged voltage value due to loss of plate material. Anyway, one lags behind the other.

In any event, in my case I did this twice in about 12 years or so. As i recall the newer battery (or was it the older) got so hot that when I attempted to bring the water level up to cover the plates, idiot that I am, the battery was so hot internally that steam was instantly and explosively generated. I couldn't add water (distilled) and wound up replacing all the batteries.

I recount this to you, short memory notwithstanding, because this is the major reason why it is not a good idea to mix old with new.

Finally, 10 amps IS too small. This is why I have a shop wheel charger, the biggest I could get for a few reasons, as I have a few different vehicles, and it (from NAPA) handles 6/12/24 volt batteries.
.

[tdelorme]

Dale you might think you caused part of the problem but you sure did a nice job cleaning up the mess. It's got to be a good feeling knowing that area is ship shape. Well done.
Would a plastic shield have prevented the problem??