Battery Charging

[Jon Wehrenberg]

On another thread two POG members have complained of battery problems. Both complaints have been difficult to address because of the lack of specific information from the members, but I suspect this entire topic has more than just these two folks confused.

We will get into this topic to an extent at Spearfish, but since not everybody can get to Spearfish it might be appropriate to get into some specifics relative to battery charging, especially house batteries.

All our coach batteries are charged while we drive down the highway by means of engine driven alternators. Generally speaking (but not always) the batteries on our coaches are not damaged or harmed when the bus alternator(s) are charging the batteries.

When we are connected to shore power or running the generator our house batteries are being charged through inverter / chargers, or on older coaches (that have not been modified) by chargers or converters. Back in olden days (such as in the 80s) our coaches came equipped originally with lead acid batteries. Those batteries had a specific charging requirement, and the charging system was set to meet that requirement. Words like equalization, bulk charge, absorption, and float were used to describe the various phases of the charging cycle. As an owner you weren't required to understand or even care about stuff like that. All you had to do was occasionally clean corrosion off the battery posts or add some distilled water.

When we moved into the era when inverter chargers were installed as standard equipment things got a little more complex. Gel cell batteries from Germany were being installed on coaches along with inverter chargers and automatic transfer switches. As long as the owner did not change the type of installed batteries it still was not necessary to know or understand how batteries get charged. Unlike converters (not the folks that built our coaches, but converters which supplied DC voltage to our coach and batteries) which were likely not adjustable and thus were not practical for gel cell batteries, the new inverter chargers had multiple adjustments to suit the battery type and the owner's habits, allowing for fast charging if dry camping, or low power charging if always connected to shore power.

When things get complicated is when an owner installs a new set of batteries and does not verify or understand the way the coach is set up to charge those batteries. The choices for batteries is complicated. An owner can buy lead acid batteries that are relatively inexpensive and they will likely be cheaper and last as long as a set of AGM batteries. But they require maintenance. Or the owner can install AGM or gel cell batteries. Both are maintenance free. The problem is that all three types require a different method of charging. If the coach is still equipped with converters as most coaches in the 80's were equipped, lead acid batteries will definitely work, but AGM and gel cell will not unless the charging cycle can be set for that other type battery.

There are more options for an owner if the coach is equipped with inverter chargers. Since there are dozens and dozens of inverter chargers in the market it is impossible to address how to program each one, or even to know if any can be programmed. But I do think that the most commonly used inverters in our coaches have the range of programming required to accomodate any type battery. It is incumbant on the coach owner to know the charging requirements of the particular type battery being installed, and then to make sure the inverter charger is set to meet those requirements.

I just checked on line and reviewed a number of sources. I find that even if an owner lacks manuals for his inverters or converters they are available on line. Also I find information about the different types of batteries and their particular charging requirements are also available on line.

I can say here with certainty that in the case of the two who posted regarding gel cell battery problems that a single wrong dip switch setting on an inverter, or the use of gel cell batteries with a charger not designed for gel cell batteries will result in gel cell battery failures in a very short period of time. Lest anybody breathe a sigh of relief because they have AGM batteries I can assure you that a single wrong dip switch setting on an inverter will also trash an expensive set of batteries. At today's battery prices it pays to spend the time to insure your charging system is set for your battery type.

[Jeff Bayley]

John- Nice, detailed post.

I installed a new set of Lifeline's on my 94 Angola a few years back and I called the owner of Lifeline about the subject matter. It has heart inverters on it which have rudimentrey, non digital remotes unlike the digital ones on my Trace Inverters (I think Heart became Trace or was bought by them or something as an aside). I was facinated that the owner of Lifeline new by memory how to tell me where to set the dip switches on the back for my particular inverters, and for those particular batteries. He seemed very sure of himself.

Another possible option for anyone who wants to double check their dip switch settings which of course require removing the remote temporarily to get to the dip switches on the rear less anyone isn't already aware.

I was never happy with the performance of those batteries. I don't think the Lifeline guy was wrong on his direction to me and I don't think my chargers were deffective. I also put new batteries in my 97 coach. This time I put $150 each Interstate's instead of $500 each Lifeline's. Figuring that the lifespan of the Lifeline's was estimated at 5 years and that I'd be better off changing the Interstates every two years for the same end cost. In both cases of the Lead Acid and the Lifelines, I only good performance for the first few weeks. I'm certain I must be doing something wrong. I know I ruined the first set of Intersates by making a habit of letting them go down below 12.2 volts. Often all the way down to just over 11 volts. That's a no no for battery life I learned. I had them changed out under Interstate warranty and the 2nd set, I was more careful with not to let the voltage dip too low. Still wasn't getting good performance.

What, when and where is Spearfish so I can come learn ?

[dalej]

http://maps.live.com/#JnE9eXAuc3BlYX...EyNy45Njg3NQ==

http://prevost-stuff.com/spearfishsignup_Prevost.htm

Jeff, hope this helps

[garyde]

I think people don't have a clear idea what the difference is between the 3 types of batteries. The technology is different for all three so the technology for charging is different as well. I have read many articles regarding Glass Matt , Gel Cell, and Lead Acid Batteries and I still have to re aquaint myself with the differences.
Essentially there are pros and cons in using each. Make sure to know these before purchasing.

[merle&louise]

Gary,

I agree. I remember in Sevierville, one of the Parliament techs told me that my Power Pulse battery system was useless on glass mat batteries because there were no lead plates in a AGM battery. WRONG!

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/mch...procedures.php

Click on RV batteries, then click on Battery Charging Procedures.

"AGM batteries are still technically a lead acid battery and they charge very similar to a wet cell.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

All three types of batteries are suitable for our coaches. Every type will give good service, but if an owner selects a specific type it is absolutely critical to make sure the charging system is set for that type of batteries.

Period.

[jello_jeep]

If you choose to change battery types from what it came with, you would also need to be sure that the ventilation at the battery storage location is suitable. Wet lead acids need to be ventilated lest ye explode.

[Jeff Bayley]

My lead acid batteries are in the same compartment as my inverters. It's well vented but it seems that there must be a greater chance of the fumes corroding my inverters eventually. Should I be concerned enough about this to get Lifelines again ? $500 x 8 batteries= $4,000. I don't know how much the 2,500 watt Trace inverters cost to replace.