lousy service at prevost mira loma

[Richard Barnes]

I've been reluctant to speak about Mira Loma because they still have my coach there and I don't want any further problems. But, you all need to be aware of my recent experiences and I hope you will follow what I'll do in the future.

Two weeks ago, I took the coach in to have an electrical problem repaired. (Prevost initally repaired this problem back in February,2008 at a cost of $1800 in labor and $141 in parts.) They repaired it but wanted to charge me for the new parts and labor. I objected and they finally agreed to make the repair at no cost to me. Then, I received a call from them saying that when the mechanic moved my coach into the bay he raised the tag axel and then he could not get the wheels to go back down. The service writer said that both tag axel cylinders were leaking and would have to be replaced at a cost of $346.00 each for the cylinders. This call came at 2:00pm in the afternoon. I immediately drove to the Mira Loma location arriving at 3:00pm and watched the mechanic remove and replace both cylinders. The mechanic's shift ended between 3:30-4:00pm but he stayed until 6:30pm and completed the work on my coach. That is a total of 4.5 hours of labor for this repair but when I got my bill, I was charged 13 hours of labor for this repair. Also, I had other work done on the coach that day and was billed for those labor hours as well. The bottom line, they charged me more labor hours on this particular day than they were open. I'll at least have an interesting argument as I get the issue to upper management.

This follows my last billing issue where I was quoted $4,100.00 for several repairs and service work but when I got the bill it exceeded $6,000.00. My office paid it before they noticed that it was billed in Canadian dollars. Excuse my ignorance, but the work is done in the US, they ask you to remit payment to an address in the US but they bill you in Canadian dollars? How many people have had that happen and not catch the fact that it is CAD? The lovely Mrs. Barnes got that straightened out (we thought) until we noticed that they left the labor rate stated in Canadian dollars at $138.00 per hour. I'm now asking them to correct that mistake and in the future they bill me in US dollars. I won't accept another invoice with CAD on the bottom line.

I like the mechanics and the service writer at Prevost Mira Loma but the management and billing operation are the worst I've ever seen. I can't run my business that way. I won't let them do any more work on my coach without a good faith estimate up front. Ray Davis has just given me the name of a company he uses and I'll take my next service business there.

[phorner]

FYI, I have received many invoices from Prevost and NEVER have any been in anything other than good ole US Dollars.

I guess anything is possible, but if this mistake is common, they have serious management problems.

[Kevin Erion]

Why do we, myself included allow Mira Loma to begin work on our bus before an estimate is made? I can't think of anything else we do that we just open our wallet and let them pull whatever they want out!
It is up to us to force the people to do there job, from an estimate of repairs to the finish invoice before we leave the shop. It is much harder to fight about it after the fact.
I also think that Prevost has developed unit pricing on most of the more common jobs, such as leaking wheel seals, brake jobs, AC compressors and a lube, oil and filter. I think it is crazy to pay for labor time that was not spent. I don't think this work should be done on a flat rate price, 2 hours at $105.00 is what we should pay if the job takes 2 hours, not 4 just because Prevost ask for it.
This is why an estimate is so important to us and maybe why we don't get one.

[garyde]

I have also only been billed in US Dollars. They must have not punched in the correct code when they charged you.
To my amazment, I have left and driven home without even reviewing a bill. I have had only one issue, and Prevost credited it .
It has been advised by others to always get a quote up front and do your hagglig up front prior to having Prevost do a job.
If there is trouble shooting issues, such as electrical, air, etc., have some stop points agreed upon to re- evaluate the time remaining . In other words, don't give them the keys and say 'fix it'.
Kevin is right, there is no other business I know which you would give a open check book.
Also, I would have information up front on what you believe the time and price should be from a seperate person or company before proceeding.

[Ray Davis]

Steve Bennett can tell you horror stories about service out at Mira Loma. When I first got my red bus, I had excellent service (until the A/C issue). But now, I'm actually afraid to got to ML. Others say it's fine, BUT they stay onsite and watch everything. Nice, but we shouldn't have to do that. Also, I'm not a mechanic, and I can't tell if they are doing something wrong.

I did have at least one billing issue, similar to Richards, in they made a conversion error in the wrong direction when filling my A/C during my multiple times having the A/C repaired. They filled with R-12 in pounds (they used a bathroom scale to figure out pounds used). But, the billing converted pounds into kilograms the wrong direction (instead of dividing by 2.2, they multiplied) ultimately charging me 4 times as much as should have for R-12. At $60-$70 per unit, it was really costly.

For my next regular service, I'm going to ABC-Companies in Costa Mesa. It is a new facility that regularly services transit buses. Steve Bennett has started to use them, and they are doing a great job, at a fraction of the cost of Prevost.

I've spoken with the service manager there, and they are thrilled to get our business.

Obviously, I won't get into Prevost specific repairs there, but for standard servicing, this is where I'm gonna go.

Ray

[Richard Barnes]

Ray,

You should find this interesting. I called Prevost in Nashville today and asked them to give me an estimate for replacing the two tag axle lift cylinders - both parts and labor. I received a call this afternoon from the service writer with a price of $665.91 for each side parts and labor. He said Mr. Barnes, I've built a little extra labor in there in case of corrrosion or difficulty in removing the parts but if that is not a problem the labor cost will be lower. This is about half the cost billed to me by Mira Loma. I have a meeting with them in the morning.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I don't have a dog in the fight because I haven't taken my coach to Prevost (except for fire repairs which my insurance company paid) since the mid nineties, but I am never surprised anymore when I read of owners being taken advantage of, or having to return numerous times to get the repairs done properly.

What does surprise me is that with all that is written on this forum about these issues that owners hand over the keys and presumably their check book. As much as our coaches are viewed as complex, mysterious devices, the Prevost side of things is actually reasonably simple. There are a lot of us on this site now that have gotten into some extensive repairs ourselves and I for one would be very happy to share my estimates of times involved to do repairs.

I think others would also be willing. I know this has been said before, but as an owner when dealing with a company that appears more than happy to overcharge, your only defense is to stay with the coach, record start and stop times and pay close attention to what work is actually being done. If you choose to spend your time somewhere other than watching over the mechanic's shoulder, plan on being taken advantage of. That appears to be the rule rather than the exception with Prevost currently.

The best solution is to bring the work elsewhere. Usually that sends a strong message.

[Richard Barnes]

If they do it wrong I'll be the first to post it on this forum. But, if they correct the mistakes, I'll be the first to thank them.

In my case the service manager at Mira Loma has reviewed my invoices this morning and has agreed to make the corrections which total about $2,400.00 in overcharges.

No one, not even the Canadian office can answer why I was billed on two invoices in Canadian dollars but it happened. They reissued those invoices this morning and even refunded the currency conversion fees charged by my bank.

Regarding the excess labor charges for the R&R of the tag axle cylinders, they agreed that they had overcharged me and reduced the number of labor hours by half. During the inspection of the invoices, they noticed that they had double billed me for a part and had it coded as labor. They also made that correction and returned my money.

I'll still watch the work in the future and have an estimate before they start any work.

[Sid Tuls]

Richard, it was great to meet you and I'm happy that you got your mess straighten out. I've been going there for almost 2 years and honestly I have had no problem. I know that almost of my stuff is warranty work but I do have all my service work done. They haven't done anything with the conversion part. I still have a great relationship with the owners of Thompson. I will keep it in my memory bank for future use. Thanks for all your efforts. Have a great time @ the POG event I sure did the first one I went to. Maybe Harry has a different opinion. I know one of the guys @ Mira Loma is a POG member his name is Scott and he will bust his ass to do it right. I think he was working on your coach this morning.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The cynic in me compels me to make this comment.

Any company that charges as much as Prevost and some Detroit and Allison dealers charge in part justifies that charge based on their experience and the quality of their work. They charge more than aviation mechanics, who not only put their license (and career) on the line, but who make considerably fewer errors in their repairs. So I would expect their work to be almost without fault. Everyone is entitled to mistakes but the high priced guys should make significantly fewer than anyone.

Those errors should not only not happen, but they should be expected to stand behind the repairs when they do happen.

Ditto for billing errors. When I had a business it was my job to know and understand the labor hours involved in a task and it was my job to see that our employees were held to those hours and that my customer did not pay for our lack of efficiency. Someone should be reviewing the reported hours before submitting those documents for billing.

It should not be the customer's job to audit, but in this case it clearly is required. What gets me concerned is how many customers accept the invoice and pay it without doing what Richard did. Further, from talking to many POG members about their experiences with service I am hearing from many about problems such as overcharges, even when there are estimates, and worksmanship that is sub-par. I wish we could be bragging about the superior service quality instead of discussing ways to insure we are not taken advantage of.