Future Rally Size.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

We are heading towards small mini rallies and one large national rally after the planned rallies for this year are complete.

I think as a new organization (a term used very loosely) we are still finding our way. As our membership grows (assuming it will) the national rallies have the potential to become large. By large I mean 100 or more coaches. For now let's assume our first national rally will be Oklahoma City in April of 2009. lets also assume we can get an attendance of at least 100 coaches.

That number of attendees brings with it some benefits and some drawbacks.

On the seminar side I see some problems with hands on seminars unless the groups are broken up into smaller sizes and we run several parallel sessions. JDUB talked about the possibility of having a coach or two up in the air and doing an undercoach seminar. That is possible if the group is about 10 or 15 people, but if we have more it will be impossible to give everybody an opportunity to get up close and personal with highly polished slack adjusters.

In Sevierville there was a traveling seminar by Rick May and Ben Cummins. We had about 40 people and undoubtedly some could not see in detail what was being shown so we know the numbers impact how the seminar can be presented. The seminar Hector and I did regarding the air suspension could have had a larger attendance with no loss of quality for attendees, and the seminars by Bill Jensen and Goodyear were also capable of having many more attendees.

So the size of the rally affects what the seminars can cover or how they are presented. We as a group need to do the planning and discussion now. This is not Jim Skiff's responsibility.

So far every rally has been great. So far the attendance has not been so large that we cannot personally interact with everybody in attendance. I do not know what the number of attendees has to be, but at some point we shift from becoming a single large group of friends to a mob of cliques or disassociated groups of friends.

When we attended early Prevost Proud rallies that had 30 to 50 coaches we felt we were a part of the group. When the Prevost Proud rallies were 200 coaches we never felt so alone. As a POG member I never want any other POG member to attend a rally and feel alone.

I see large attendance rallies to have a huge advantage apart from the problems I see on the social side. As a group we can get high quality seminars from Detroit, Allison, Lifeline, and Prevost. I can envision various converters providing on site tech support and maybe even conversion specific seminars.

But I also see a central national seminar as being a loser. If we have centrally located rallies conceptually it seems the way to go, but the reality is that everybody has a long and expensive drive and that may serve to reduce attendance. Before we cast anything in stone I think we should explore places, the issue of number of attendees, the topics and presenters, and a parallel program of high quality for our significant others who do not intend to learn how to polish slack adjusters.

[Coloradobus]

Jon,

Being part of the group and interacting with all in the group is the utmost importance. Placing a name with a face/voice and coach is what I hope we are about.
Becoming so large, as you said about the PP rally you an Di attended, never feeling so alone, is why the rallies need to be intimate.
As part of the our Rocky Mountain Vintage Airstream Rally Planning committee, and Chris, being Wagonmaster, our group has tried large and small groups and has landed on a number that works for our group.
Having a rally that attracts the attention/$$$$ of converters/vendors/, service support and all that goes with them, in turn make that rally like FMCA, Prevost Prouds etc., which is what the two of us don't want.
Those types of rallies, the main objective is "Tech Support" in other words, "free service" Past rallies, we know of partcipants who come, forego any events, just to be there for the free service.
Our POG seminars are for hands on owners and all interested persons and some who are not totally hands on, but want to be educated to keep a watchful eye on a 'hired" tech.
POG2, Santa Fe, was an absolute blast!!! Santa Fe Skies owner John, after over 2 years still reminisces on our antics and "Bling" contest. 2 weeks ago while we were there, he wanted to know when we might return.
Kerrville, was fun, especially caranning with the Orange County gang getting there. But on a whole, that rally appeared to us to have some of the backlash/problems of being a bit too large, that's our opinion ( groups/ cliques).
We need to remember a couple of things.
Keep it intimate,
Keep it simple
Keep it interesting.
Keep it laid back.

If there are going to be more mini rallies, with a once a year Natiional one, then a good number for the mini rallies is 50-70. Our magic number span.
The WBCCI, Wally Byam Caravan Club/Airstream club has a once year national rally where there are thousands of rigs that show up. Then in turn, the National Club is broken up into Regional divisions, and in turn, the regions are broken into Units. We have 12 Regions in North America which has 142 Units. The total population of the Airstream Club is 6,693 member rigs. There are a great many more airstream owners who don't care for the rigid militaristic hierarchy that is the WBCCI. As a natioanl club, membership is dropping not only from natural attrition but from owners who don't like structure. When I was a kid with my parents in the Airstream club, member rigs numbered over 15,000.
My point is, let's not have the POG become this giant mass of congregating busses, for you will loose members in the end.

[dale farley]

I too, see the advantage of the larger gatherings from the standpoint of the support we will get from the converters/sponsors. As Jon/Jim/Chris mentioned, I agree with the fact that we can easily become so big that we lose all the friendship aspects of the group. The larger we become, the more pronounced the cliques become. Unfortunately, it is very easy for the members of any clique to fail to recognize they are part of one.

There were some couples at Sevierville that seemed to be almost isolated for no apparent reason. One couple told me that only one other person had come to their open house. I don't think that was intentional on anyone's part, but the results were the same. Maybe next time, we need to make sure the open house is split up so all rows are given adequate coverage. It "was" difficult to attempt to see everyone else's bus while hosting your own.

Hopefully, we won't become so large that we only have the opportunity to socialize with a few. If so, this rather defeats the main purpose for having the rally. I'm sure most all the men enjoy the technical aspects, but friendships are much more important in the long run. Regardless of our social or financial status elsewhere, bus ownership serves as somewhat of an equalizer when we're at a rally.

I'm not convinced that an East and West rally won't continue to be better than a National one.

[Darl-Wilson]

Wow! What a great group!! It is such a great pleasure to be surrounded by people focused on keeping this fantastic organization together and heading in the right direction. I agree totally with the previous writers and am willing to make whatever contribution necessary to maintain the cohesive nature of the POG.

The one potential failing we have is substantial leadership. That is also our outstanding appeal. I think we are at a point where we need a group decision about the future direction of POG. The most important items have been raised by previous posts, such as size and number of rallies. Then there are the seminars and numbers of attendees for each type, i.e. hands-on around a coach or group meetings in a large room with Power Point displays. How about some sort of diversion for members not interested in the mechanical aspects of their coach? All of these items need to be addressed...but by whom? Perhaps we should look to Jim Skiff to solve them. Maybe Jim should ask members to create a democratic solution.

So many questions, so few answers. I will stick my neck out on this one and suggest we vote on the future structure of this group. First, I don't think we need any paid members to organize events. Perhaps we should make a contribution for expenses incurred by volunteer members for postage, fuel, food, etc.

Next, we could ask for volunteers for seminars that could also help determine the appropriate number of attendees and other volunteers to insure that all members will be included in some type of activity and not excluded from open house programs, etc.

My list could go on and on but I think we should first get some feedback about any future POG structure change. The first input should be from Jim Skiff. He certainly has a big financial investment in this group and is the driving force in the implementation and negotiation of all facets of the rallies.

Hopefully we will get much more input about this subject that was originated by Jon and expanded by Jim/Chris and Dale/Paulette. As they all indicated we are growing and some changes may be needed for us to remain a close-knit and fun-loving group.

Finally, it looking like you 'right-coasters' had a ball last week. Just watch our 'mini' in Pahrump on Cinco de Mayo!!

Darl

[Jon Wehrenberg]

There is likely a formula for our activities. I just do not think we have found it yet, but I think we have all the elements.

From the major and mini rallies Di and I have attended I think we have concluded that the sizes so far have not reached the point where we are not able to get to interact with all attendees. Kerrville was very close to that point however. I think the Sevierville and Santa Fe rallies were an excellent size. Having said that Di and I also believe the the PSL mini rally was a blast and it was small enough to really get to know and enjoy one another.

I think the seminars have reached the quality level we need them to be, and I think they will continue to improve so it is my opinion we just need to make the topics of interest known, and then find presenters from within our group, or from suppliers.

Perhaps the template that we are following is the way we need to structure all future rallies, and that as a group all we need to do is continue to refine the locations, the number of attendees, and if we need any kind of organizational structure.

Kerrville was structured and run by three CA POG guys that clearly worked their tails off. The rally was a success. Sevierville was run singlehandedly by Skiffer. The rally was a success. Should we sit back and let Jim handle the administrative side? He demonstrated clearly that he can do it and he did it well.

The size of the rally is going to be a very difficult question to answer. If it is a 100 coach rally POG will have converters and other suppliers lining up to participate because they can reach a large audience. They spend a lot of money to support our group and in turn they expect our group to support them, as we should. At 100 coaches, plus converter coaches, we have fewer campgrounds available for rallies, and we have certain seminars that cannot be easily done. On the other hand, a rally of that size may allow the converters to do converter specific seminars, something we have never had and that seems very important. Maybe the attraction of a national rally with a large number of attendees is less on the social agenda, but heavily biased toward converter specific training and maybe service.

Perhaps we need a businesslike large national rally every two years emphasizing learning, and in between have smaller more intimate rallies mixing learning with a lot of socializing.

At 30 to 50 coaches the converters spend exactly the same amount of money to attend a rally, but have a smaller audience. We can expect to not have major suppliers such as Detroit or Allison send seminar presenters.

There is one critical element we need to include in all rallies, and it needs to constantly vary and improve just like our seminars. We must insure our better halves will have activities and seminars of interest while the technical seminars are taking place. If that does not happen we can expect future rallies will be less well attended.

[truk4u]

Dale,

I think one of the problems was folks had to walk around the campground and look for the signs in the windows and we were pretty well spread out. At the next Rally, maybe a balloon tied to the mirrors would be easier to identify and possibly a list prior to the open house identifying the site numbers.

I'm sorry if someone felt isolated and I hope we can do better in the future.

[dale farley]

Tom,

I agree about the signs. You had to go to the front to find the sign, so the signs on the buses on the last couple rows were even less visible. A balloon on each end would have made it much easier to see. This should be an easy one to improve on.

[MangoMike]

Good comments by all.

Dale we would've liked to visit a plethora of busses, but we were planted showing ours. I'm sure lots of folks were in the same boat. Alternating days per row would solve that problem.

I thought the food was passable, but I'm sure it was a cost issue with Skiffer trying to keep cost in line to keep the entry fee reasonable. As always you get what you pay for. Unless you're buying sheep.

The pay for breakfast at Kerrville was a great way to handle the morning. Giving everyone an option without having to build the cost into the entry fee. Although I'm sure some of us thought it needed more breakfast burritos.

We had some impromptu "Campfire in Can" gatherings around JDUB's and our bus which were down home enjoyable. I wonder if this can be expanded into larger gatherings.

Auctions: I think there should be a rule at future auctions prohibiting any bodily desecrations.
stache_8445.jpg

Donna claimed it was the best Rally ever. I think she now knows a lot of folks from previous gatherings, and there was plenty to do around Sevierville, a good formula. And we all know if mom is happy, everyone is happy.

Jim, we had a great time. Thanks

mm

[dale farley]

Yep, it is hard to be in two places at once. I finally left Paulette at ours and went looking on my own, but I would much preferred we could've shown ours together and then looked at others together.

[shookie]

...simply tie a can of beer (or 2) or a scotch and soda (or 2) to any of your mirrors...cheers all and thanks for the memories....