Yikes!!

[doodlebug45]

Last Tuesday I had my first chance to have a good look at and test drive the 93 Marathon I talked about in previous posts. Unmitigated disaster may be too strong a term but I certainly have concerns. My first "oops" factor came when I noticed the DDEC had recently been replaced. That means no history is available. The dealer said he had a new one installed at great expense but didn't explain why. The unit is clearly marked as a "reman". There were lots of other little things but the big problem came on the test drive. Weather here was crummy (Canada in the winter: go figure!) and we were late getting to the dealer who is a few hundred miles away. On arrival, the coach was sitting out front at high idle where it had been for more than an hour. The dealer pointed out that no PDI or other work had yet been done but the coach was good to go for a test drive. The temperature was hovering at around 20F and a snow warning was in effect. We got out of town for some highway test driving and drove for about 20 minutes at around 60 to 65 mph. We made the turn to come back to town and 2 minutes later, the engine died. Long, long story about several hours of me and the service guys trying to restart the coach ended in the unit being hauled back on a trailer. The dealer says it was due to gelled summer diesel but I had the powerplant running fine. I also bled the lines and got fuel to flow although at poor volume. I made the comment that it looked like the Racor and on-engine fuel filters had never been changed and got no argument. Also, the dealer seems to have a "thing" about me taking the coach to the main Detroit/Allison dealer for a checkup. He has agreed to have the full PDI done by a Prevost approved shop so I have not yet thrown in the towel. Although the "Marathon" part of the coach seems to be in good shape, I am concerned about the excessive wear on the leather of the driver and passenger seats. Maybe it has more than the 150T miles reported. I suspect the "Prevost" part of the coach had poor maintenance. Prevost has told me that they can't divulge any history on the coach without the approval of prior owners except for outstanding recall notices of which there are two. (flexible hoses on front & rear brakes). The dealer swears these recalls were done by some outfit in another city but not logged by Prevost for some unknown reason. BTW, I didn't touch any air controls but an hour after the engine quit, the coach had "bottomed out". Is this normal? I have an uneasy feeling guys but would appreciate your input and comments.

D'Bug

[Just Plain Jeff]

This is an absolute horror story in the making. Keep driving, period.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Doodlebug, when the bus died was it in gear? If it did that may be why it would not re fire.

If you are mechanicly minded and are concidering buying something at a low price to do the repairs yourself everything you have described is nothing that can not be overcome.

I do not think there is anyone in the club that bought more of a basket case than we did and everything came back on line wonderfully. I could write MANY chapters of all the components that were neglected on ours, but, we got it for way under wholesale and I believe even with the cost of parts it is now worth more than we have in it. Even concidering these things, our bus is again solid and reliabal. So: are you a good wrench and how low will the seller go?

On the other hand I think I've seen Marathon replace things like air bags for used coaches in the past. In fact I was AMAZED at the way they literally bend over backwards to make new owners of relatively older used coaches happy, repairing a whole litany of things. Talk to Wrongway and AJ they both bought older Marathons. If relying on this option then where is the closest Marathon barn to you?

Did you REALLY like the look and style, on the inside and out, are you mechanicly minded and how much will the purchase price be. Those would be the questions for the scenario you have described. If you cannot correctly answer these questions then I would have to agree with Jeff.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

D'bug,

I would not be worried about a new DDEC or the loss of history. If the engine has problems the new DDEC will report them, If it stays clean there are no codes. DDEC will not tell you the oil has not been changed, or the engine is about to throw a rod. It generally tells you of conditions that affect how it runs or things that could make it stop running like low oil pressure or high temps.

As to the engine quitting, if it is getting fuel in any quantity short of almost complete stoppage it will run, but not produce power. If it stops completely you will not get any fuel flowing.

The stoppage could be as simple as the DDEC having a tripped Circuit breaker, or the fuel solenoid closed or plugged filters.

What concerns me is the attitude about having Detroit and Allison check it.

I am not afraid of mechanical stuff, like Joe, but I will walk away from salespeople that I consider less than honest. I'd take a hike.

[doodlebug45]

You might be right Jeff but there is also a chance I might be over reacting. We plan to think on it over the long weekend.

It was in gear Joe but the first thing I did when I stopped was punch the neutral button. The service guys that came out didn't bring fuel conditioner but they did bring 15 gal of winter diesel added to about 40 gal that was in the tank. They also brought starter fluid (ether) and we could get the engine to fire when we sprayed that in but it stopped immediately when the fumes were gone. Bottom line is no fuel to the engine. Possible reasons as I see it are filters, fuel pump or control unit assuming gelling wasn't the issue which I doubt. My money is on the filters. I never met a wrench I didn't like and right now, between 2 boats, 2 tractors and 1 truck I have 9 diesel engines that I maintain and they all work just fine. I see the point that you are making about value for money and I can't honestly tell you how I feel about that right now. I have seen another coach (liberty I think) out of Arizona that is about the same price but it has tons of new stuff on it. I have some tough decisions to make so that is why I'm asking for input. You put a good perspective on things.

[doodlebug45]

Way to go Jon! I just got off the phone with the dealer and he says his shop guy discovered a tripped breaker and everything worked fine when he reset it. I can only assume that it is the one on the back of the DDEC that you mentioned. This was after they changed all the filters and the fuel pump and bled all the lines. The dealer also got around to telling me that he had the engine overhauled 5T miles ago because of a scored cylinder. Apparently the DDEC went out shortly after the rebuild. Getting information on this coach is like pulling teeth but progress is happening. BTW, the engine WILL be seen by the Detroit/Allison guys or the deal is off! The rebuild was done by somebody else which may be the issue here.

[truk4u]

D'bug,

Rely on your gut instinct and run the other way!

[Ray Davis]

I'm curious. Is this bus such a good deal, that is why you're still considering it? You've indicated enough reasons to have at least some serious concern about the maintenance on this coach. Unless you're getting one heck of a bargin, I'd continue searching.

As you can guess, you can easily dump $10,000-$30,000 (or more) in fixing an older coach, if things ain't right. Be careful.


Ray

[rfoster]

D'bug: First of all Good Luck (luck is a direct result of the amount of work you put into something)

Having said that I see more red flags around this bus than at the Track in Daytona this week.

I dont think the 200 mph duct tape is going to help.

[win42]

D'bug: I just put my coach up for sale at http://www.californiacoachcompany.com/contact.asp
It is a good strong low mileage coach. Please check it out. I would not hesitate to drive it anywhere. It has been to POG 2,3 & 4 with no problems. We just found a newer one and made the change.
I will be happy to retire from the two bus club.