Bus Supports / Stands

[Just Plain Jeff]

On this Forum, we have danced around the topic of getting wood and campers for many weeks now. Not wanting to split hairs, a certain webmaster was indeed the recipient of a massive amount of wood, which has been noted in other posts and we have seen the results thereof.

Here is a stiff reply:

My role in that was to drop a 60-foot maple tree on his property to indeed supply his family with wood (as if they needed it) a year ago. It had been damaged in a storm and had to go.

To the dismay of the person mentioned and his family, I dropped the tree precisely at the mark over a year ago.

Since that moment, said wood has remained uncut, split or processed for firewood. In the heat of the moment, we often forget what was on our minds, but at my age, I do recall that I had sown enough seeds in fallow grounds to adequately provide for several seasons.

One guy can't do wood for another guy.

And Jon, considering the ram-shackle nature of your scattered piles of wood, you are hardly a person to criticize. I do indeed have photographic evidence, as you well know, that your wood is not in order. It is not labelled, categorized by species, size and dated as to the location of the tree-fall, date and time of splitting. This goes against the grain of proper wood maintenance.

For some time I have considered a thread called, "Getting Wood in Your Camper," but have resisted the impulse to do so. I will leave that to others, as their roots are deeply embedded, branching out into unknown areas and don't want to look like a sap.

Oh sure, criticize a guy for his wood.

You know what happens when that conversation begins. You wind up out on a limb.

(Did you really want me to go on?)

We don't want to have a thread hijacked here stemming from a misunderstanding?

[Jim_Scoggins]

Jon:
My druthers: A bright color would be great. However, any color you or group think comes up with is fine with me.

[Denny]

Jon,

Put me down for a set of four for a 1998 chassis XL 40; black is fine. Thanks.

[Jim_Scoggins]

I am wondering if some day the "Jon Stand" might one day become a highly desirable collectable.

Maybe they should be signed and certified:
Set 1 of 25,
Set 2 of 25,
etc

[Ray Davis]

Jon,

I'm hoping another XL2 (both 40 and 45) will chime in here with comparison measuremeans.

I attempted to raise the bus as much as possible, using level-low while bus was on high idle. My front didn't come up as much as expected (which may be part of my front loading problem. I might need Prevost to check this).

Anyway I took 3 measurements.

1. In front of the front tires, there is a support which comes at an angle from the center, towards the exterior side. This beam on my coach was up at around 13.25 inch.


2. In the back, there was no supports behind the wheels. Just in front of the drive wheels, I found an inner beam, which connected to a vertical support, and raised upwards to another beam which attached to the shocks etc.

Those measuremeans were:

inner lower support 10.25 inch
inner upper support 19 inch

So, these numbers are a long way from your 14in standard on the XL. Before committing to that, we really could use another XL2 measurement. In rereading your previous post, I see you mentioned "between" the drive and tag as a possible location. I'll try again.

Is there a better way to raise up the bus, other than using level-low with engine running?


Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ray,

Without an XLII owner's manual I can't say for sure where the support points will be, but I have no doubt that wherever they are they will NOT be between the drive and tag axles. Unless the XLII structure design is a substantial departure from the rivet coach the support points will be under vertical columns that are part of the axle subframes.

I cannot say this for sure because I do not know what affect the slides have had on the Prevost structure design, but generally the coach has a front axle subframe assembly and a rear axle sub frame assembly, and the trusses beneath the windows and above the wheel arches form the bridge on top of those assemblies to keep the bus from bending in the middle. On my bus the body support points are under the vertical portions of the axle subframes at each end of the bridge.

Who has an XLII manual that shows support points?

It is critical that the bus is supported in the correct place. Also, is there a difference when the coach has slides.

Ray, as far as raising the coach the best and only effective way apart from hydraulic jacks, is to set the level low system to raise the LH, RH and front. There may be a trick to this if your system is supplemented with the HWH, but if you have max air pressure to the air bags you have done all you can do unless you use jacks. A trick to get some weight off the front is to lift the tag when raising the front. Once the air dryer spits a time or two with only the front being lifted and the tag up, you have the max extension and pressure in the bags.

[Darl-Wilson]

Jon, with all the problems of a variety of heights on the coaches, would it add a great deal of cost to have these adjust? What would it add to have a simple insert with 2-4 holes drilled plus the pin? I don't think this would compromise the capacity of the stands and would certainly make them more appealing and universal for use in other applications. Thanks for your thoughtfulness!

Darl

[Ray Davis]

Jon,

The 10.25 measurement I mentioned was directly in front of the drive wheel. I'm pretty confident of that measurement, and I believe my back end was up pretty high (I could slide underneath at that point near the drive wheel).

The front measurement is probably good, although perhaps as you've suggested, I may have gotten a little more height by first dumping my tag. I will check that out.

It would be nice to get another set of XL2 measurements. I do have a Prevost manual, but had run out of time, and wasn't able to spend time going through it looking for jack points.


Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ray,

There is a good vertical column in front of the drive axle, but the radius rod attach point is there. It is my opinion that would work, but I would be reluctant to unless Prevost said it was OK. If you think about it you are cantilevering the entire rear of the bus off that point, and in addition to the weight now on the rear axles, you are adding some of what is on the front axle as well putting not only very large loads on the stands, but possibly stressing the upper structure of the bus due to the unsupported weight hanging beyond that point.

Darl,

I thought about a large adjustment screw. I think the strength would be compromized unless the adjustment screw and its corresponding nut were substantial and I think that would add more to the cost far beyond its value.

From a manufacturing point of view, if we need to have multiple sizes it is not a big deal because the only variable is the cutoff length of the 4 X 4 tube. All other parts are the same, and the operations to produce remain constant.

[Petervs]

Hi Jon,

Well, I played with my bus today ( 1994 Marathon XLV) to get some dimensions.

The front has 15 inches clear between the floor and the bottom of the frame member that has the tow hook welded on, this is just in front of the front wheels, but inboard a little bit. It is the only sensible place to put the stands in my opinion. So the 14.5 inch height you have posted should be fine.

The rear on mine must be different than what you have found. I measure a clear 18.5 inches between the floor and and the frame member that is the truss which mounts the shock absorbers and air bags. This is just in front of the drive wheels. I would need an 18 inch stand for this location.

I should dig out the book and see where Prevost recommends the supports be installed I suppose. Clearly 4 stands is sufficient.

Everything else under my coach has been sprayed with a foam insulating material, and many of the frame members are covered over, so it is hard to see where they are exactly.

As for paint, my vote is for a light color. It is dark enough under there already. I plan to pin stripe them and add neon. If they are black, I will smear some grease on Brian's stands when he is not looking.

As for the rated capacity, well, you have to first decide what the failure mode will be. If you expect them to crush or buckle as a column would under a high vertical load, well, that load would be more than the total weight of several busses on one stand. Actually, I got curious and worked it out. One stand would hold over 500,000 pounds! Jon will soon get the Most Overengineered Gizmo award.

It is more likely that they would fail by toppling over due to an uneven load applied. It is hard to set a rating for that.

Compared to the typical adjustable jack stands we are familiar with, those have the weakest point on the pin that holds them up to whatever height is chosen. That pin is loaded in double shear and it determines the rating of the stand, after applying some multiplier for a safety factor.

Jon, I hope this answers your questions, if not, let me know. If you have a better location in mind for the rear, please advise. Thanks for tackling this project.
Peter