Updating TV setup

[Just Plain Jeff]

Looks like Ben has a plan.

One question I would have with a long-term electronics upgrade (and one that I heard from a guy who is an on-the-road producer of ESPN programming) is that he consistently had big problems with the power sources to his gear.

I know absolutely nothing about this, but he mentioned something about square/sine wave problems which affected the performance of recorders, editors, computers and the like.

Probably a good thing to do is to find some electrical generating wizard to help design a great power source architecture from which to develop a power source that will support both near and long term electrical demand requirements.

Since nuclear power seems to have gone out of fashion, there may have to be some creative thinking in developing such a power source.

Before I would make any kind of an expenditure, let's see how I would put this, I would wait until after the POG rally as there is going to be someone showing up near the end who is going to have real news about what Prevost is doing about monitoring chassis functions and upgraded electronics...if they are willing to go public with it.

I am biting my tongue until it bleeds. Oh, how I would like to write what we have just learned.

[lewpopp]

Speaking of TV updates. Is Mike Kerley coming?

[Jeff Bayley]

Since I'm new I'm browsing old topics and found this one back from April started by Ben.

To Ben and others and for what it's worth. I live in my rig full time and I'm tech friendly also and not afraid to wire stuff in. I installed a 42" Plasma in my first coach along with updating the stereo in the front with an XM head unit. I also put a 32" LCD in my latest coach in the bedroom and if I will be pleased to show off how to make one fit with ease in the bedroom of just about any conversion without fussing with a ceiling mechanisim. I forefeighted the top half of one of my bedroom windows and it fits perfect in between the window trim pieces (added by the converters) that run perpendicular to the floor and ceiling and which I used to bracket the TV to. It took me a whole day just to measure and shop for the right TV which lended itself to the installation. It looks totally pro and factory and I'm not a master craftsman but I took my time and made it work. The top half of the window that covered is not big deal because I still have the view when I'm lying in bed out of the bottom half of the window. The gain was well worth the sacrifice of the partial loss of view. Like Ben suggested, the space where the old style TV was in the bedroom became storage. I had a cabinet maker install shelves for the Direct TV receiver and DVD's. I got Bose Lifestyle subwoofer installed behind the shelves in a crawl space that was unuseable space for just about anything else and I put some black acoustic material in the rear of the shelves to let the sound through.

I decided to forget about tearing into the TV in the front of the bus. Too much work and the bedroom is where I care about watching TV, not the front.

I'll get to the GPS solution in a minute. First, forget about all the complicated stuff and over gizmoing yourself. All the fancy stuff is not really neccessary to acheive some of Bens goals which I also thought about. To coordinate the sound, I just bought a $50 sattalite radio receiver which broadcast the signal using it's built in FM tranmitter. Whala. Instant coordinated sound in the front, the bedroom and the bay of the bus even if you have a seperate dedicated radio in the bay. Just tune to the sattalite station and your all set with the same channel coach wide. I took the time to snake an antenna through to the roof for the sattalite radio so I get steady reception instead of locating the antenna near the dash like I did at first.

You can replace your head unit if want as an option but for most people the sound is acceptable. For guys like Ben and I who want to rock you can replace the speakers the converter used with newer high end replacments. If your head unit does't have enough power to help the new speakers reach their full potential, you can consider upgrading the head unit with a high power one and avoid the need for a seperate amplifier. You'll likly loose the use of your multidisk changer which I think most converstions have because the proprietary cable between the changer and the existing head unit won't work with your new head unit unlesss you use the same brand and then it's a mabye. I went ahead and did this on my first Prevost 2 years ago because I didn't care about the changer anyway. I used the high power head unit I suggested with enough built in power to drive the new speakers I upgraded to but elected to use a dedicated mono amp to drive the subwoofer I placed behind the drivers seat. The MOST amazing sound and I was very satisfied. I looked forward to slidding behind the wheel and driving in an entirely different way. I went form "Oh I have to drive again" to "Break Time!". If you decide to leave the existing head unit but still wanted a little boost in your sound you could try a self amplified sub woofer but you'll have to get 12 power to it. Depending on your floorplan you have to hunt for where you can install everything neatly. You might be able to take power straigh up through the floor from the house battery bay by drilling a whole or you might be able to power something like this using 110 volt and house style amp but your using a larger parts going with home components like this. By the way, don't bother trying to run new speaker wire. Just use what's in place. The gain in sound is not worth the trouble to replumb. I shopped for speakers that installed right where the old ones were with no modifications to the hole needed.

So that's how I found my happy medium. Now the only thing you still need to address is the GPS. I use my laptop with Microsoft Streets and Trips. There's another software that a friend of mine mentioned called Co Pilot (I think) which has info on bridge heights and stuff but I don't plan on tracking that down. The Microsoft interface is very easy and intuative to use. It costs a little over $100 for the software and the GPS sensor. I tried the Dolorem brand package prior and it was so bad and hard to use that I almost never tried the Microsoft Streets and Trips which is super easy to use. No manual required. My laptop sits right on my flat dash without the need for any velcro and has never come close to falling off. The screen is much larger than any othe stand along or stereo combo GPS you'll find AND the options and features on the software are more robust than the stand alone GPS's. For sound, either forget about like I do, or get some micro speakers that plug into the lap top and silicone in place but I couldn't find a place to hide the wires. I find that with the extra large screen I can see good enough that I don't need the sound. Can't stand that the sound of that bitch anyway.

I find that I'm still deciding what floor plan and features are important to me on the various conversions and I don't want to throw my full weight into customizing a coach until I land on one that I'm going to keep for at least 5 years. I figure a used XLII will be $400k soon for a non slide and I'll go for broke on that (my third) bus. Although I live and work from my bus full time and am very internet dependent, I've also elected against broadband sattalite for present. My Verizon card works just fine and it works when I'm moving. $5k for the sat seems overpriced. I went to the Data Strom users forum yesterday after seeing a post here for that forum and there is a topic there discussing the use of the air cards (like the Verizon) I found it interesting how many of the Data Storm users rely on this for another redundant way to connect OR a primary way if trees are blocking or bad weather although I beleive the Data Strom punches through the weather better than other (smaller) dishers.

If anyone including Ben has issues wiht using too much band width and inadvertanly getting cancelled by Verizon, I have a suggestion. Get two Verizon cards and alternate them. I have one for my laptop and one for my fiances lap top to simply life instead of trying to keep a router in play and I also have a Sprint card for back up if the Verizon doesn't work which is hardly ever. The ONLY place it has not worked is the Grand Canyon. Worked fine at White Sands Missle site in the middle of nowhere New Mexico. I'm constantly amazed at how good the service is.

Here is a posting I copied from another site called: http://www.evdoforums.com

(excerpt)
there are dual wan routers which can bond bandwidth, maybe i could get 2 sprint and two verizon cards amd mux them to make one fast feed? i am leaning towards a f2 or f3 but am considering anything i can get thats fast. (end excerpt)

I haven't taken the time to dig into this yet. Can anyone else includnig techy Ben take a turn at commenting on this possible way to daisy two card together and increase band width?

Can you guys tell that I'm not afraid to type ? Hope this info is useful and not hot air. I'm still feeling my way through the forums.

Jeff

[MangoMike]

Jeff,

Thanks for taking the time to post. It would be really helpful if you listed some details of all your efforts. Such as Model #'s and prices on speakers, type of sub woofer, model of your LCD tv in bedroom suppliers and maybe some pixs. This is info would save a lot of us trial and error time.

Thanks

Mike

[Jeff Bayley]

Mike- No problem on the additional info and pictures. I took before and afters. Will try to post my first photos here on this reply. Unfortunately I didn't take photos of tearing all the fascia and trim parts down but it wasn't as scary as I thought. The main thing I was worried about was taking something apart and not being able to get it to fit back in place again but it was fine.

Not sure where the pictures are going to show up (at the end ?) but here goes. The TV I found after an entire day measuring various ones between Comp USA, Best Buy and others was a Hewlett Packard model HP LC3200N. I think it was about $1,800 in January. Probably less now. It measures 31.5" straight across in case you want to check the space between your two vertical trim pieces to see if it will work but I've glanced at a few other interiors of other converters and these trim pieces are usually just like the ones on mine (Royal). To be sure, the pieces I'm referring to are used by the converter to cover up the factory shells seem between the two windows. Mine have about 1.2" to 1.5" of overhang. When installing the TV, this would be defined as "recess" I suppose because the edges of the TV can go behind this recess if necessary. My installation came almost exactly perfect with very little of the HP's TV frame going behind the trim pieces. It is as custom and perfect of a fit that I could have asked for. The depth of the TV is also perfect giving about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of space behind the TV so it doesn't rub the window and make noise from vibration.

Now, the other challenge with this (in ad to finding a TV that fit's) was to find one that I could bracket. How the heck was I going to do that? I have to stop and say that I spent quite a bit of time figuring this out. It seems so simple now but I was scratching my head for a while. Anyway, most TV's have machine screw holes in the rear provisioned for using the TV with a wall mounted bracket. This won't work because there is no room for the bracket unless you want the TV to wind up sticking out into the walk way and in my non slide I can barely get around the bed as it is so I could not afford this. I settled on buying some 1" aluminum flat bar at Home Depot to make my own bracket. I was going to bend the aluminum so it had and L shape at either end and screw the flat bar to the trim pieces and drill holes to match the factory holes on the rear of the TV meant for the bracket. This is a viable option but I wound up saving myself that extra step because of Plan B which worked. I noticed that this particular TV came with external speakers which ran the length of the frame and mounted to the sides of the TV. This was perfect for two reasons. First, you want to save space by using your existing speakers in the bedroom and allowing you to get a smaller TV instead of one with built in speakers (which most of them have). The speakers are integrated by the frame winds up being larger. But besides being able to discard the speakers on the HP (since they were external) this severed a VERY important second purpose. The holes in the rear of the TV made to screw the speakers on were all the way on the side edges of the frame in the rear and I was able to use a 4 standard small L brackets the two converter trim pieces that run vertically (and that I keep referring to over and over). More on this in a minute. Anyway, this was a better option than trying to string the flat bar around the back because the TV got even closer to the window (to protrude less).

To complete the modification, I used a hole saw and opened up a hole between the old TV location and the new TV location. The new hole is hidden from view after you replace the vertical trim pieces. Run the power cord and all your cables for picture and sound through there and then connect it all up to the Direct TV receiver and so forth that now sits where the TV used to.

Back to attaching the TV using the L brackets. I had to remove the top (horizontal) trim piece in order to remove the two vertical trim pieces. I reassembled these three pieces together laying them face down on the bed and carefully positioned the TV to the vertical pieces using the brackets and the unused speaker housing holes (threw the speakers out and used other speakers like I said prior). Since I'm not a master craftsman (just determined) I took at least two hours measuring and remeasuring and figuring out the depth and this and that to make sure I got the TV right where I wanted it. After I got that bracketed in place, I removed the top piece in order to start putting it up on the wall. The TV stays connected to the vertical pieces and is now boxed in place as I raised it up preframed. I had to do it like this because I couldn't get around to bracket it in otherwise unless you were to remove the window and get in there from the rear. Jeez, this is an article I guess. Anyway, before you put the frame back in place, now is the time to provision all the optional cables you may want now or in the future by connecting them to the rear of the TV and running them into your old TV bay and marking them and letting them hang in case you want to rearrange / add something later on. Otherwise you have to tear it out again (1/2 hour after you know what you've done) in order to get behind there.

I think this is one upgrade you can do to a coach in order to "update it". Trying to retrofit a drop down mechanism is not practical in my opinion. Now, if you happened to have a bed that runs the length of the coach instead of a cross queen I can show you what I did on my first coach. I got a 42" Plasma to fit where a cabinet used to be and that one really rocks but with my cross queen floor plan I hit a wall and it took a really long time for me to figure out how to make it work. Since my other floor plan is very rare I won’t bother discussing that one. Since I dry camp most of the time and like to shop for a view, I was reluctant to cover up my window using this method but when I’m lying in bed you I still get some view out of the bottom of that window so it’s not a total loss and you also still get the full ventilation. If you stay in RV parks instead of dry camp like me then the view portion is not as important because you’re only missing seeing your neighbor part of the time instead landscape like I want see whenever I can.

I think this installation could be replicated in most coaches and if someone was inclined they could offer to do this for other coach owners and make themselves some pocket change. Once you do this once you can do it again in the fraction of the time. I took one day to pick out the TV, about 3 hours looking for the right parts in Home Depot and at least one day installing it. I’ll be happy to show it if anyone catches up with me on the road or at a rally, etc. I’m in the parking lot of Mira Loma Prevost as I write and will be hovering around So. Cal for a month or two. I would gladly have paid someone to do this for me but in my experience you can't find anyone to do stuff like this. I don't even know how a coach company could have done this for me because of having to pick out the right size TV for the application. Some jobs are just impractical to outsource. Besides, I get to brag to people that I bring on the coach that I did it myself. Once you tackle a couple of projects like this your confidence goes up a little and your not so intimidated and the MAIN thing is that you make sure the work is done RIGHT. If someone has another neat modification they know how to do maybe we could help each other.

How'd I do Mike ?

Jeff

[MangoMike]

Jeff,
That's what I'm talkin' about! Details are great and will certainly help the next guy. Everyone who undertakes a project in his/her (that's for you Debi) bus should document the steps involved and add pixs, no matter how elementary (read boring to guys like Jon). There are a lot of NOOB's out there and this will definetly help someone. I've tried to do it on my site www.prevoman.com with some basic stuff and plan on adding more down the road. Jon has been great in adding some HD stuff on the front page of this site.

If you don't mind, I would still like to hear some details on your upgraded stereo/speaker system as it sounds like something that should be added to the Mothership.

Thanks for the effort.
Mike

[lewpopp]

Jeff, Very interesting. I have the coach with the bed running the same direction as the coach and so do a lot of us. I think we would like you to elaborate a bit on what you did for that big tv. thanks.

Mike Kerley. Now's your time to perk up and get in here. Your lovely wife showed me your tv conversion in the front of your coach. Real neat and I am looking into something like that only I have a head knocker problem already.

Lew

[rmboies]

Jeff,
That's what I'm talkin' about! Details are great and will certainly help the next guy. Everyone who undertakes a project in his/her (that's for you Debi) bus should document the steps involved and add pixs, no matter how elementary (read boring to guys like Jon).
Mike

Thanks Mike and all the other ladies here thank you as well, I am sure. I too have enjoyed Jeff's detailed descriptions. One of my "jobs" in the bus is to be in charge of working the sound and video systems. Bob is no help with those but then again, I am no help with the engine either I will say that if we ever build a coach, I will build it so that each system is controlled independently. I am not a fan of one control works all because it seems that one control never works them all Anyone else find this to be true?

Debi and non geek BOB-00

[win42]

Lew: You have been sleeping at the wrong end of the bed, turn around. Put the screen on the coach rear wall and enjoy.
Besides that you do too much sleeping, we need to hear from you more often.
Your Pitcher
Harry
Humm Baby Humm !!

[Jeff Bayley]

Glad to know my postings are getting read and not being used to solve insomnia which is when I mainly get to writing them. I think I'm winning the longest poster trophy if they award one at POG parties.

I'll tell more about the Stereo in front and then the 42" Plasma install in the back. I thik it's better to keep these shorter and then answer follow up questions so I don't do information overload.

Stereo. I put an Alpine unit because it had the XM Tuner intergrated in it and I wanted to keep the installation clean. No external amp needed, it has high power amp bulit in and it drives the 4 Diamond brand speakers very load with no distortion. I replaced the speakers with upgrades that were the same size. Mine were in the ceiling with the speaker grills completely accessable. Some of you have speakers hidden behind the fabric covered trim pieces. Search the pleats for several screws that let them remove. In another bus I have, those had tiny kenwoods in the back and to get better sound here I'm going to have to open the hole up more and have a speaker grill exposed when I'm done but I can cover that with matching fabric (if I can find it). Use the existing speaker wire.

Now, I DiD put a mono amplifier made to work with a sub woofer. It drives the sub and nothing more. I think it was about $200. I mounted it inside the front drop down bumber but other buses might have room for it inside somewhere, maybe even behind the dash. That's where I put mine and I fished the wiring down through some holes that were alread there near the left drivers foot (or maybe hip) area. Look around there and maybe with the drivers side access doors open and see if you've got some wires you can follow the path on. The subwoofer was JL Audio inside a truck box. Truck speaker boxes are fairly small and tappered desined to fit in the space behind a autombile truck seat and it worked here also. Would not fit in my Royal. Seat is different. So I haven't done the sound in the front yet. Still pondering best way to do that.

For the 42" Plasma in the non cross queen that faces front to back. Mine was in an Angola and the door between bed and bathroom was off center so one wall was large and one was to the other side was small. The large wall had the TV cabinet and a storage bin. We reconstructed it so the new TV would be installed and the same angle the old TV followed. This was good becuase the wall was not big enough to mount the TV flat, only at the angle. So the edge of the TV goes all the way...........forget it. I'll put some pictures and stop with the words for now. Ran the cabeling through the ceiling across to the A/V closet. For sound I used come computer speakers that come with a subwoofer. $100-$200 will buy you all you could ever need. This has it's own amp built in and I like these becuase I want to use the lowerst number of components as possible. I did'nt want to install a home amplifier for this. If you have a Bose Lifestyle this would work or many might already have another home audio receiver. Use what is already there I say but if you want to add speakers for the TV, then the non sub speakers that come with the computer kit come in different styles. I just siliconed mine to the bottom of my TV case as you can see from the photos.

Jeff