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Thread: PA Class A/B non-commercial

  1. #51
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    Congrats Harry, did you tell the inspector that the last driving test you took was with a horse and buggy?

  2. #52
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    Harry: After seeing you and Shirley Blow our doors on the way back from Branson, I never had any doubt you could get r done. Keep on keeping on.
    Roger that!
    2008 Liberty DS XL2
    2023 Denali Ultimate
    My 6th Prevost

  3. #53
    win42 Guest

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    Hey Ray

    The person giving me the behind the wheel test for a Class B license ran me through the full air brake test on the coach. The Rec. Veh. and Trailer handbook indicates a 45' housecar equipped with airbrakes are not required to pass a air brake law test or required to perform an air brake system check. However he required me to perform such a test before taking to the road test. He also claimed any vehicle over 26,00 # required the B license. As I read the manual I was exempt from the air brake test, but it was ok to do it anyway.

    Ca. Driver Handbook 2007 pg. 5 under class C license: You may drive any 2 axle vehicle with a GVW of 26,000# or less, any three axel vehicle weighing 6,000# or less, any housecar 40 feet or less. You figure out what this means.

    Cal Commercial Driver Handbook 2007 obtained from DMV is good reading for any of us novice drivers with our monster machines.
    Last edited by win42; 01-17-2008 at 10:50 PM.

  4. #54
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    So, that is actually a bit concerning. It seems like the instructors are not familiar with the law here in CA. The Class B non-commercial license is fairly new, I think, and perhaps they are just not familiar with the requirements.

    The requirements are clear, spelled out in several places in both the DMV code, and in several DMV handbooks.

    Class C may drive up to a 40 ft motorhome. Period. They may drive any other vehicle up to 26,000lb. However, with Class C you can't drive like a 26,001lb truck. That does require a class A license.

    I did a search through the 935 page DMV code (in PDF format), and there was very little about air brakes, and they all had to do with the commercial license. If your are taking a Class A (even non-commercial) AND your vehicle has air brakes, then you have to pass an air brake safety check. That is in the law.

    A Class B test is not supposed to require an air brake test. Granted we should ALL be able to do one. But, they are requiring things on the test that are NOT required for Class B license, and that bothers me. It seems like they should have given you a Class A non-commercial after that test.

    Ray

  5. #55
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    When I have done seminars for POG members about our air brakes and the systems I know a lot of guys are not familiar with how the brakes operate, and definitely are not familiar with how to do a pre-trip inspection.

    While it is nice we are exempt from being required to know this stuff, the failure to at least have a basic understanding of the systems could save a lot of grief in the future. The commerical driver books are an excellent resource for learning and understanding what is probably the most critical part of our buses.

  6. #56
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    Sounds like good advice. After checking out the Florida DL website, it doesn't look like they offer a non-commercial Class B license.

    They detail the requirements for the CDL, then list exemptions from the requirements, which includes all recreational vehicles.

    "CDL Exemptions
    The following persons are exempt from the requirements to obtain a commercial driver license:

    Drivers of authorized emergency vehicles that are equipped with extraordinary audible warning devices that display red or blue lights and are on call to respond to emergencies;or
    Military personnel driving military vehicles; or
    Farmers transporting farm supplies or farm machinery, or transporting agricultural products to or from the first place of storage or processing or directly to or from market, within 150 miles of their farm; or
    Drivers of recreational vehicles used for recreational purposes; or
    Drivers who operate straight trucks (single units) that are exclusively transporting their own tangible personal property which is not for sale.
    An employee of a publicly owned transit system who is limited to moving vehicles for maintenance or parking purposes exclusively within the restricted-access confines of a transit system's property."

    So, it would appear that you can legally drive any recreational vehicle with the Class E drivers license.

    However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't know how to operate our vehicles safely and follow all the typical requirements as if a CDL was required.

  7. #57
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    Put aside any concerns about the CDL or state's requirements. As a driver of 20 plus tons of motor vehicle I want to know if my brakes work, how to know if there is a problem, and if there is a problem what the significance is.

    We have warning lights and buzzers. They can be interpreted as meaning there is a problem. But if we have been tooling along in the fast lane, oblivious to the preliminary clues that buzzers and warning lights were about to go off, are we also aware of what is going to follow the warning lights and buzzers?

    At that point it is a wee bit too late to pull out the handbook.

    Not part of any CDL test are other less important issues, but important enough to be part of the need to know category. Our engines and transmissions are also equipped with sensing devices such that if some of them detect a problem you may be a few seconds away from coasting to the side of the highway. Some of the sensors that I know from personal experience that will have you along the side of the highway are the coolant level sensor (common), the turbo boost sensor, the throttle position sensor, and the oil pressure sensor. On the turbo boost sensor and the TPS sensor there is no warning per se, you just go to idle. On the coolant and oil pressure sensors you get alarms and warnings and following that your engine stops running, courtesy of DDEC.

    My point is if you do not want to get a CDL that is fine, but at least try to understand the basics of the operation of the coach. It may become very important some day.

  8. #58
    win42 Guest

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    Put another way:
    Ca. Driver Handbook 2007 pg. 5 under class C license: You may drive any 2 axle vehicle with a GVW of 26,000# or less, any three axel vehicle weighing 6,000# or less, any housecar 40 feet or less.

    However if in front of a jury defending myself where a compact car cut me off and I could not avoid the accident driving my 50,000# house car. I feel more secure in the fact I have a Class B license in my pocket indicating I passed a DMV written and behind the wheel test which included full air brake testing along with a current medical card allowing me to drive the heavy vehicle.
    Thank you all for your positive remarks on my passing the test. Because of my age of over 70 I will have to renew the license every year with a current medical form from my doctor. Not a bad thing, but inconveniet.

    This is the end of my discussion on this subject.

  9. #59
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    I think my point was lost in the mix. My point was that the inspectors are asking for information or testing on things that are specifically NOT to be included in the test.

    I don't have any problem performing an air brake test, and will do it without problem. However, what I have a problem with is inspectors NOT either knowing the law here, or deciding that their interpretation is more important.

    The air brake test is on the commercial test. Along with a LOT more than just the in-cab test we've talked about at POG. What prevents an inspector then from trying to test you on the other portions of the commercial test, which aren't applicable to the Class B license.

    I agree whole-heartedly this information is valuable, and I plan on getting a class B license, even though my coach does not require it. But, that doesn't excuse inspectors testing on things which are specifically indicated in the manuals as NOT required for class B.

    FYI, at least in CA, the only thing a class B (non commerical) license gives you the authority to drive is a motorhome larger than 40 ft. In CA driving a motorhome is not dependant upon whether or not the coach has air brakes. It's specifically a non-issue in the law. That's my point.

    Ray

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