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Thread: Montana LLC's

  1. #21
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    The tour was fantastic. There were three of us and one flew in from the Cinncinnatti area, and my other friend rode with me in the new car. (260 miles, 4.25 hours including rest stops, 27.1 mpg going, 26.2 return).

    We had a personalized tour given by a retired man that had worked in every area of the facility and was able and willing to answer every question. He knew the car and the production techniques.

    Our tour took 5 plus hours, and we finished with a tour of the National Corvette Museum. I know the Corvette owners among us that have had these cars over the years can appreciate the strides made in performance and quality. and after seeing the efforts made in the production facility to produce the car it is no wonder.

    We did not see the engines produced since they are assembled, by hand at an other facility and shipped to Bowling Green, but we saw the frames being produced and the entire assembly process. With the exceptions of the frames, virtually everything is produced outside the facility, but is delivered to the factory for assembly into the final product.

    I am starting another thread to see if there is interest in having a two or three day mini rally to include tours of the factory and museum. We were treated as well as anybody could be treated and everyone, including the production people truly appreciate having visitors. They are rightfully proud of their efforts.

  2. #22
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    FYI
    this is off a Dealer site that I monitor daily.....the Tomato Can who responded under the "comments" section is not me.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some car buyers beat sales tax through Montana “LLC” loophole



    A legal loophole allows adventurous car buyers to skip local sales taxes
    (1/28/2008)


    DealersEdge Daily Headlines

    At the Flagg RV Center near Boston, Mass., salespeople sometimes meet customers who are different from the others eyeing the scores of motor homes in the dealer's lot.



    As the Framingham MetroWest Daily News reports, these buyers stand out because, unlike their fellow state residents, they can purchase vehicles costing $100,000 or more without paying a dime in sales tax.



    The buyers avoid the tax by taking advantage of Montana's laws governing corporations and motor vehicles. Using those laws, individuals can buy a vehicle through a Montana-based limited liability company - or LLC - and registering it in that state.



    The process works because, unlike other states, Montana will register vehicles not garaged within its borders.



    Montana-registered vehicles don't need annual inspections, and buying a vehicle through a Montana company avoids sales tax because the state has none, according to Deer Creek Corporate Services in Helena, Mont.



    The company offers out-of-state customers the chance to set up their own Montana-based companies in order to save money when buying a vehicle. They've helped customers register RVs, cars, helicopters, planes and other vehicles.



    For a fee, the company handles the paperwork for establishing a limited liability company with the Montana secretary of state. Deer Creek will also act as the physical Montana address for the LLC and forward mail to their out-of-state customers.


    Once the LLC is established, a customer can purchase a vehicle on behalf of that organization in their home state. Because the LLC is bound by Montana law, and the vehicle legally belongs to that LLC, a customer's home state can't charge sales tax on the purchase. Deer Creek can also file the paperwork for a Montana registration and plates.



    Deer Creek handles about 700 to 1,000 customers a year.



    But the scheme might not be available much longer. It has earned the ire of some Montana officials, including Dean Roberts, administrator for Montana's motor vehicle division.



    "This is upsetting the laws of the other states. We don't like the practice," Mr. Roberts said. "I don't like it from an ethics point of view."



    Montana public records for LLCs are left with only a company's official address, which can be as simple as an attorney's office.

    Comments:
    Monday, January 28, 2008 12:39:32 PM by Anonymous

    Another example to point out the ridiculous inequity of our taxation system. If you see an RV costing 100k or more..many 1M and more, chances are good it's registered in Florida, Montana or someplace without sales tax. Or the owner is an idiot. If Taxachusetts and other big sales tax states are losing this revenue anyway, wouldnt it be wise for them to change the way they tax? The State can turn around and come after instate residents with a use tax, but a more fair system would be a lot easier.
    Wendy and Rick DeSilva
    '08 Marathon H-3
    2017 F350 platinum
    Mahwah, NJ
    Brant Beach, NJ
    Pelican Lake, Fla

  3. #23
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    Karen & I just returned from a Newell rally in Austin, TX. We met a fellow who lives in Colorado and had his coach registered and licensed in a Montana LLC. He received a certified letter from the state of Colorado informing him that they were assessing sales tax on his coach at a rate of 7.76% on $500,000 plus penalty plus interest and HE MIGHT BE LOOKING AT JAIL TIME!

    He contacted the DMV and cleared the matter up by paying the taxes and the penalty and interest. He now has Colorado plates and is very happy to have the ordeal resolved!

    His advice to me was: These states are serious about sales tax evasion

    Just thought I would pass it on.
    Tuga & Karen Gaidry

    2012 Honda Pilot

  4. #24
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    It is interesting to see states chase citizens for a few thousand bucks, while their largest businesses have their corporate headquarters in the Caymans Bermuda, offshore saving in some cases 100's of Millions of real dollars. the difference is those businesses have bought and paid for state legislators.

    If you can legally have an LLC in MT or any other state do it. Make certain that you are legal, get an opinion letter from your Montana attorney before making a commitment. The MT attorney will need to in most cases get an attorney from your home state to sign off. Check list of legal requirements will be generated and must be followed.

    If the LLC in MT has at least 2 members, one being your attorney in MT. you operate the LLC as business, keep it out of your home state for the required time, and follow all other rules then you might well meet the legal test.

    Lots of people own businesses out of state, pay whatever the state tax they are registered in and this has been going on for ever.

    Florida used to chase down boats that were purchased in Florida and spent much of their time there after the purchase. Dealers started to move offices out of state taking the business away to places like the Bahamas. Now Florida has relaxed the rules understanding how much business is generated by the boating public in Florida.

    If state governments would concentrate on cleaning up their own house they would not have to worry about shaking down good citizens for excessive fees.

  5. #25
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    The States can now buy the data base of Montana LLC's. This has been going on for some time and many states are doing exactly that. You can have all the Attorney's in the world representing your LLC, but in the end, the State is going to win and it's going to be painful.

    Just think about how strapped the States are for Revenue and if they can pick up the data base for 3 grand and in return collect thousands of dollars from people trying to beat their sales tax, it's a no brainer.

  6. #26
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    As I recall in conversations with our Montana attorney, currently there are some issues with time spent in other states in your motorhome and each state has different requirements for establishing rights to taxation. For us, since we're on the move all the time, seemed there were special circumstances that applied, though complicated.

  7. #27
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    There will always be risks associated with any venture, any business. Governments always want a piece of the pie and will chase down anyone who is willing to keep the world's economy in motion, especially those who do.

    Make sure that your LLC actually conducts business with others, conduct the LLC as a business, pay all bills as a business, use the bus as part of an ongoing LLC activity and have an active LLC member living in the state the LLC is registered in.

    I cannot with 100% assurance say one will not encounter issues downstream but if you have operated as a business conforming with good business practice, this is about all anyone can do.

    I run all business activity through both my accountant and his attorney who is a tax attorney for their blessing. If they hesitate or are unwilling to provide a letter of opinion, then it does not fly.

    I purchased a motor vessel from a broker in Maine a few years ago. took it to a well known Maine shipyard for repairs and upgrades.

    The state of Maine got wind of this and sent me a bill for 7% sales tax on the purchase. It took 2 years to straighten out, but I did and Maine (who is always thinking of new ways to drive visitors away) rescinded the demand. I was days away from court, if your right your right, if your not you will pay, bottom line.

  8. #28
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    California is also coming down hard on out of state plates. If you get seen by a highway patrol with out-of-state plates, they will quite often stop you and ask a series of questions

    1. where do you live?
    2. where do you work?
    3. where are your cars registered?
    4. where is you coach registered?
    5. which state do you pay state income tax to?

    You get the drift. If everything is CA, and the bus is MT, you're in for trouble.

    I'm not an expert, but evidently it's certainly legal to have out-of-state plates, however, there are certain requirements, one of which I beleive is that the vehicle is out of state for more than 6 months per year.

    That's where a lot of people have made the mistake. Simply licensing it in MT, and then keeping it in CA is a problem waiting to happen.

    I'm sure that other states have different rules, so tread carefully.

    Ray

  9. #29
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    I remember hearing that another place use to ask the same questions to their citizens, I believe it was Nazi Germany. I would not live in a state that treated it's citizens as though they are breaking the law all the time. California seems to be rather tax happy and broke at the same time, sounds like the dream has run its course in Ca. I lived in Ca years ago and found the state to be wonderful, what happened?

  10. #30
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    Out of most everyone I know that has MT plates, they created an LLC for the sole purpose of not paying taxes. And, now when they get caught, it's not pretty for sure.

    CA has rules about out-of-state purchases, and it's possible (although not easy) to get CA plates, and to not pay sales tax. It requires out-of-state purchase, and usage for some predetermined period of time. It also requires that you use your vehicle out of state (when I purchased my bus) for more than 50% of it's use. If you qualify, you can get CA plates, and not pay sales tax.

    I will agree, I do not like paying sales tax. Especially because of a fire that caused me to pay sales tax twice in 6 months. That hurts.

    Others may chose to disagree, but in CA there is a legal way to not pay sales tax, and then there are "other" ways, which may or may not get you in trouble.

    Ray

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