Know this unit?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ted,

I just noticed you live in the land of Lincoln. Joe is very knowledgeable on these things and with this forum the total talent and skill represented can provide whatever help you might need.

Where is the coach?

[henryhighwood]

The coach is in northern Florida. I may have to free up some time and point the aircraft south. The only problem is I would not know what I was looking at.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Roadrunner is down that way and if he can't help mabye another one of our Floridian members can. I can ask Bob our sailsman if need be he lives down there, let me know.

When I spoke with her she said that the OTR A/C is needing repair. The annual service was also included in her 10000 estimate of things to do, said Prevo has been doing that service mabye call them and see what they can tell you about it.


Also said they are 2 bus owners, almost never towed with it and came down another 10 right on the phone to me even after I told her I was inquiring for a friend. She sounded like she knew what she was talking about and owned them for a while. Didn't wan't to put it on consignment for fear it would rot on the lot. Has it pulgged into shore power at her sons and checks it daily.

Jon something tells me Ted might be able to show me a thing or two. The way he described how he likes to buy aircraft is precicly how we bought our bus!

[Just Plain Jeff]

It isn't always about the numbers. The goal in seeking a coach is to find the best, the very best coach you can afford to buy in the best condition.

This particular coach fits into the category of 1994 chassis with a 5-speed transmission. Now, everyone (Lord only knows) buys a coach believing that they will keep it forever. I have done that several times. Maybe more than several times.

Anyway, a Series 60 FIVE speed, unless purchased way in back of book is not likely the best way to begin the Prevost experience, especially if one is considering a trade down the line somewhere. These coaches were the very first Series 60 Prevost shells and from a trade point of view, are not considered to be highly valued, no matter the converter.

That's free advice, worth every penny you paid for it.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff's point is pretty accurate. If you tend to keep these things you can look at the market through a different set of filters than if you are inclined to trade up routinely.

But what Jeff is outlining as a negative, may be a positive for someone who intends to have long time ownership. You invest less, and typically can get more coach than one that is in favor with the market.

Angola for example made a great coach. They had a strong loyal following and their coaches were typically well equipped. They took at hit because they no longer exist. Royale, like Angola made a good honest coach. The market for Royale was those folks that wanted a nice looking (generally) wood interior without all the bells and whistles (and complexity), and since they stopped building conversions their prices have taken a hit. Regardless of whose conversion it is, they all share the Prevost chassis. This particular coach is a transition coach. They were able to get the Series 60 in it because it was a 45 footer, but the world transmission, the six speed was not yet fully developed for installation in the Prevost chassis, so this was the interim model. Just like the old 8V92 will be supported for a long time, so will the Allison 5 speed transmissions.

[henryhighwood]

So....
Aside from the resale value, what is the practical difference between the five speed and 6 speed? Pulling power, hill climbing, fuel economy?

Is reliability an issue?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I've had both. The five speed was set up to shift on demand, and would hold a gear when your foot was on the floor. As a result the engine would accelerate the bus a little better because the transmission was set up to shift at RPMs dictated by your foot. If you were into the power it would hold the gear until you maxed out the RPMs and if you were light on the accelerator it would upshift.

The six speed is set up in our buses to favor economy in exchange for performance, unless you select the performance mode. In normal operation it shifts at lower RPMs and delays downshifts in favor of economy. However, in performance mode it will rev higher before upshifting, including max RPM upshifts, and will drop down a gear sooner. The performance mode shifts tend to be harsher than regular mode shifts.

The five speed did not have a transmission retarder and supplemental braking required a Jake brake.

The six speed is available with a retarder, and there has been an equal mix of owners who favor each type of retarder. A retarder is very effective, but tends to drive up the oil temp in the transmission so transmission oil changes are either expensive (when synthetics are used) or frequent (when Dextron is used).

With rear end gearing appropriate to the transmission selected I can live with either one, but would prefer the six speed, primarily because off the line acceleration is better.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Jon may actually be onto some of the user-reasons about the 5 v 6 speed transmissions.

This may seem a bit strange, but it seems that Prevost Car got jammed up on access to transmissions in the early to mid 90s due to the fact that the 6 speed Allisons are also the the trannies used in the Abrams tank. (Not kidding here folks). After Gulf War I, the Army got in line first, so Prevost, so I have been told, was stuck with using the previous 5 speed transmissions for a bit until they could get access to the transmission designed to work with the Series 60.

You can get fooled comparing transmissions unless you are using similar engines. Jon is probably aware of the fact that his coach has a previously-green Series 60 in it, which has a lot more 'pull away' torque; that is to say, a higher output at lower speed, hence the appearance that the 6 speed is better. It is, but it is the combination of the engine and closer ranges of transmission that makes a difference, not just the tranny itself.

The 8V92 (good engine) has a higher RPM power curve, so it's a good match for the 5 speed. It has nice balance and when it's good, it's good. That engine and/or variations of it have been around for about 50 years.

Our Angola had a Jake on it; despite which, it was a no-stopping-kind-of-camper. (New topic). I've found, having had 2 8V92's and 2 Series 60 coaches, that in in-town traffic, it was much more necessary to be manually downshifting with the 8V92's than with the Series 60's; but that's also due to ABS brakes, so a bit of apples and oranges here.

Like we all say, the idea here is to get a general orientation, and go see the coach. Drive it and if you love it, bring it home.

Then we'll stop making stuff up like this and then actually try to answer to questions truthfully.

Welcome to POG!

[dale farley]

Ted,

I am located in Molino, FL (suburb of Pensacola) which is extreme Northwest Florida. I don't know exactly where the coach is located, but if I can help with anything, just let me know. Dale

[Jon Wehrenberg]

While the guy with the missing fingers may be telling us the truth about availability, hence the delay, Prevost was solving engineering problems during the changeover period.

The 40 foot coaches could not accept a Series 60 and the 5 speed transmission because the 5 speed is longer than the world transmission, and the Series 60 is much longer than the 8V92 so they started with the installation of Series 60 engines in 45 foot motorhomes because the extra rear overhang allowed for the added length of the combination.

When the 6 speed came available that transmission in concert with the Series 60 became the standard for the Prevost drive train. To accomodate it in 40 foot and entertainer coaches some of the structure had to be modified, including a change to the confirguration of the tag axle, from a straight axle to an arch.