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Hope I can use a 'brand' name here without fear of my post being blocked.
I was looking for a few reviews on the Air Force One Aux. braking sys. now that some here have had it in use for some time.
Pro/Con, would you install the sys. again?
Thanks for the input.
I have had several braking systems and this one is the best. I am in the process of reinstalling it in the 2007. One important thing to note is where you install it on the coach. They have redesigned the tank / valve assembly, which is a substantial improvement over the initial design, so I would recommend it without reservation.
As JDUB has mentioned, they have redesigned the tank/valve assembly which is a vital improvement. It is also just as important to find a suitable and secure spot to mount this assembly under the bus.
We have had ours for just about 3 years now and we are very happy with the performance of this product.
No problems with recommending the Air Force One....
Larry,
On my former 99 CC, 98 Chassis, I had the unit mounted on the cross member where the air dryer is located. It fell off twice prior to this but after mounting on the cross member it stayed. Local dealer could not figure this out on their own and I had to tell them where to mount it. They came to my home since I did not feel safe in driving the bus with the tank hanging down. Unit is excellent after the initial bugs were worked out.
Got mine last summer installed direct by them in toad and bus. First class people to deal with and the unit works as advertised. Easy to hook up and unhook from the toad. My tank/valve is located in the engine compartment and is a very neat and clean install. I would get it again!
One more confirmation of the product. My tank / valve is located inside the curbside engine door, just outboard of the Bus air compressor.
Wondering, what makes Air Force 1 brake system better than others.
Many say it is, but give no reasons.
JIM :confused: :)
For our Lexus, it was the only system that would work. That aside, it provides proportional braking with minimal hookup and essentially invisible systems in the tow.Quote:
Originally Posted by JIM CHALOUPKA
I agree that the Air Force One system is so easy to hook and unhook, No fooling around with the seat and brake pedal all out of site and works as advertised!
Air Force 1 is rare in that it maintains vacuum in the toad's vacuum booster. The cylinder that applies braking force to the pedal is proportional to the braking effort you use in the coach and with the vacuum (power brake) assist the effort to power the toad's brake pedal is greatly reduced.
The AF 1 uses the signal from the brake treadle instead of air pressure downstream from the relay valve to actuate the brakes in the toad. With the exception of the M&G setup which piggy backs on the master cylinder (if I am thinking straight) all other braking systems use brake application pressure to unassisted brake pedals. If you want to see how much force is required for a car without power brakes, set your toad on an incline with the engine off, pump the brake to get rid of any vacuum that might remain in the system, and without allowing the engine to run, allow the car to begin rolling and see how much force is required to slow and stop it.
If I did not want the option of towing multiple vehicles I would use AF 1.
M & G has been flawless!
M&G has been flawless for me as well.
JIM :)
Jim and Tom, I currently have M&G on the Pilot but I'm changing myTowed so I am looking for something easy to move from towed to towed. M&G just isn't that flexible and the next owner of the Honda will have a nice braking sys. As a braking system M&G is flawless.
Just put my M & G on so far it's been more of peace of mind. But then again this is the longest this bus has been parked since I've owned it!! Still in Motorcoach Country Club in Indio,Ca
Tom,
M&G does not fit in every vehicle. When I was looking back in 2007 I called M&G to confirm what a local dealer had told me. It won't fit under the hood in my Dodge Ram 2500. I found Air Force one as a viable alternative and invited them to join is in Sevierville TN, doing a demo install on my truck. It has been flawless in operation for me since then.
M&G requires fitting their valve between the vacuum booster and the master cylinder. On my truck that would also require rebending the brake line from the master cylinder to the distribution block. I don't know about you but rebending anything is not looked upon favorably by me. The only other alternative, if there was room, would be to fabricate a brand new brake line. The Air Force One did not require any modifications to the brake line, only a connection to the vacuum booster line.
I love my AF1 and recommend it to anyone now looking for a toad brake system. Our Prevosts were the first installs they had done on a bus. There were problems but so far as I know all problems were worked out to the coach owners satisfaction.
I really like mine too. They told me when they did my install that they had updated the valve and they were sure it would work as advertised for a long while. I really like the quick hook and unhook for the toad. Can't beat the combo of the AF1 and the Blue Ox tow bar. Makes it easy to pull the Tahoe along.
Will,
I had the same issue. Everyone was howling about the M&G unit, which is a good set up, but it fit about 0% of the toads I was in the market for where the AF fit about 90%, so it wasn't much of a decision for me.
Jerry, have you decided the location for mounting the AF 1 tank/valve unit ?
Thanks,
AL
I thinking about the spot where the OTR AC compressor was mounted. The Webasto is there but there is also enough room for the tank and valve with a small modification.
Formerly, it was on the axle side of the engine bulkhead behind the tag axle oxbow looking weldment, but I need to check with the AF guys to make sure the air line length would present a problem. I don't think it will.
When an FL shop was looking mine over for mounting there was talk about heat at engine location. Plus moving the small gray box under the Webasto so as not to be a heat issue they were preferring to mount in the tag area. What was supposed to be less then an hour to mount that unit, run lines, was pushing 2 hours trying to find the best location. Being a little...well probably a lot frustrated over what they wanted to do and the cost I wasn't feeling real comfortable with there installation program. I pulled the plug on it and left the shop.
The tank/valve unit is a well put together one piece unit. Someone did their homework on that.
I don't get the heat issue. Turbo and exhaust is on the other side and the Webasto exhausts right out the bottom and back. The tow relay box is right next to it, so if heat were going to be an issue, I figure all those relays and electronic widgets in that box would be more likely to be effected than a tank with a simple valve and some HD plastic tubing.
It sounds as both our engine areas are pretty close to the same. Trying to get a brake system on the bus while in FL was not going to happen at that shop. I was OK with the mounting in the engine area with more of a concern with the tech's ability.
Not pulling a toad to CA for the rally, which is probably a good thing it turns out. Renting a car at rally CA. RV park.
Just for conversation fuel mileage 6.3 and would be better if not for head winds 2 days in a row. Speed around 65 mph. Fuel prices up around $4.10. Not on the road yet so prices probably up overnight.
If you guys can wait until tomorrow, I can take a picture of my install and post it. Mine is just ahead of the rear bumper tucked in behind the radiator shroud and was put in by SMI at their shop. Nice and clean area.
Here they are:
Attachment 8222
Attachment 8221
Well it looks good but I can't tell what it's mounted to. A couple more strategic photos could save me some time trying to see where they bolted it up. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark3101
Ok..I will do that tomorrow with the better camera. It is bolted to the metal pan under all that stuff...<g>. I'll get to it ASAP. I need some better lighting for the pics too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Winchester
OK..here is another better picure. They have bolt slots in the base of the valve and they just drilled into that metal pan that is in that entire area and bolted through it. If you have any questions you can call me at 218-343-3443.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Winchester
Hope this answers your questions....
Attachment 8224
Yep, that one will work. I can't want to get it rigged back up. It's a real sweet working unit. Especially with the LED's letting you know it's functioning.
Yeah, I really like that LED too. Nice to look in the backup camera screen and get verification that the brake is doing it's thing. Hope the installation goes well and that your back decides to cooperate too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Winchester
Mark,
Thanks for the help. Valve and tank are installed per your photo and I called SMI and they sent me a reinstall kit with new tubing and fittings. After close inspection, some of the tubing looked pretty rough, so I should have this little project knocked out in a couple of days with the use of my trusty ramps.
JDUB
Glad it worked out. I think that the location for the valve is a good one and it should stay fairly clean there. Easy to run the tubing around that area too. Hope everything works out for your install...take care.
Mark
Mark...thanks a lot for jumping in with an excellent place to mount the tank/valve unit. We have been doing a rally at Paso Robles and not much time to spend on the POG sight. I see how the shop in FL really missed the ideal location which sure beats the relocating parts on the curb side.
Great to be on the POG site with members like you and Mr. Winchester.
AL
I figured that since you were discussing how to fit it in on the curb side, I would at least mention this location. When I had mine installed at SMI, the guy that did it looked at several places to mount it and thought that the road side made the most sense because of the room available and ease of running the tubing to it. The valve / tank unit can easily be replaced if necessary without removing anything else or even really getting under the bus. That is another plus.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoaterAl
Take care..Mark
I have a '92 CC. Your pics are a great help. Can you give me a hint where on the chassis to look for the point where I splice-in the air line?
The brake valves on mine were up by the drive axle. SMI did the installation at their location. They have installation instructions online with some pictures. They are in a .pdf file. If you get under the bus, make sure to have it supported by stands of some sort!!! You run the risk of being crushed if the bus decides to lower itself while you are under it without some protection. I know you can call SMI for assistance too. I have talked to them before and they are very good to deal with. Good luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam
Thanks. My instructions only had pictures of chassis like Workhorse. I will call to see where to download Prevost. Would never have thought to mount in the engine bay until i saw your post. Makes tons more sense than on the underneath. No chance of getting squished. I will mount the tank and connector and let my local frame shop with a pit do the scary stuff.
Yes, it does need re inforcing that our Coaches are raised and lowered by the air system. I have seen mechanics crawl under non supported coaches and work. This is insanity. These coaches can drop for no good reason at a moments notice.
In the Prevost book as well as on line, there is information where to support the Coach frame, not the axles, when wanting to work under a coach.
Please see new post on my Hyda-boost problem. Thanks!