Birdland Coach Non-Service - Pogger's Beware

It's not often we slam some company for shoddy work, but the time has come for this one.

In an attempt to help Gary Stevens with new batteries, I first asked for the date codes of the current Lifelines. Gary was frustrated, since he bought the batteries new on May 29, 2008 from Birdland and they should still be in good condition.

I converted the dates over and here was the outcome:

4 8DL's Dated 8/05
1 8DL Dated 8/03
1 8DL Dated 4/03

So Gary paid for new batteries and ended up with old stuff as much as 5 years old. Birdland charged him full tilt for the aleged new batteries and sent him on his way.

I then talked to Jim Godber, owner of Lifeline and they helped verify the old battery ages and codes. They also tracked down who had stocked those batteries and were the source for Birdland purchasing them. I won't go into anymore detail on that.

Mr Godber than said the batteries have his name on them and he would provide new batteries to Gary at no cost. Now boys, that's customer service you need to remember. Lifeline had no responsibility in this deal, but stepped up anyway.

So the good news, I ordered Gary's new free batteries today and the bad news is, stay away from Birdland.

I'm going to chime in here. A couple of years ago I had occasion to help a POG member with their new-to-them coach that they bought from another POG member. I know the seller to be an honest person and he represented the coach as having a great maintenance history which was principly done at Birdland. Other shops were involved with the care of this coach, but the issues I will relate were done (not done actually) by Birdland.

There were three serious findings all of which the seller confirmed were Birdland's responsibility. The first was a substantial number of grease fittings were hidden and covered with what appeared to be a combination of old dried grease mixed with hard caked dirt and sand. The new owner and I had to dig that crud away from grease fittings which had not been touched by a grease gun in a very long time. The Prevost requirement is lubrication at grease fittings every 6200 miles. These were clearly not greased in tens of thousands of miles.

The above finding however just affected the coach but the following 2 put the owners of the coach at risk. The first was at least 2 hub seals were leaking and had been leaking for a very long period of time judging by the amount of grease and dirt caked on the drive axle brake drums and on the brake shoes rendering the drive axle braking almost useless. A leaking hub seal for those that do not know eventually coats the brake shoes with a layer of grease. That layer of grease eliminates the friction required for stopping. In the event of a required panic stop that coach would have traveled a much greater distance than the already lengthy stopping distances.

But the ultimate example of a disregard for the customer's safety was what was found when the hub was to be pulled to replace the bad seal. Our hubs are all held in place with large nuts. These nuts not only control the tightness of the wheel bearings which must be a specified tightness, but the nuts hold the hub assembly in place. To insure that takes place there are two nuts, each having its own special washer designed to prevent the nut from rotating loose. The inner nut controls the bearing fit, and the outer nut functions as a double lock in concert with the inner locking washer and the outer locking washer which retains the outer nut.

On the coach in question the outer nut locking washer was completely missing and the only thing preventing the outer nut from loosening was the fact it was tight. Had it loosened and come off it would be followed by the inner nut and at that point the axle and brake chamber which is all part of the hub assembly would have left the coach. This was not a simple mechanical error, but an example of complete disregard for the safety of the coach. The missing washer is cheap. Installing it is as simple as putting it over the axle shaft and then bending a few ears over after the outer nut is installed to mechanically prevent the outer nut from loosening.

Unless you have the ability to supervise the work being performed please only bring your coach to service people that are not going to put you at risk or take advantage of you. There are a lot of great people out there that are trustworthy.

Great post Tom,
Stepping up to the plate by Lifeline re; Mr Godber needs to be posted for several days so all can see when some take advantage others will do the right thing. Good detective work.
I can relate to warranty issues on parts with my NAPA parts business. Birdland might have had some defense if it had only been one battery way out of mfg date. It appears there inventory movement has no movement and were stuck with old product until Mr. Stevens came along.
My battery inventory moved pretty quick at the store but I still pulled any battery over 6 months old as not sale-able.
Jon's advice in dealing with trustworthy shops more then ever today as some shops see opportunity to take advantage.
Even on your own personal vehicles ask for the old parts in the box the new parts came in. My own personal experience was buying new tires for my son and at home found the shop had put on a lower quality tire (same Brand) in place the higher quality model paid for. hmmmmm ......so much for a big sale event

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg

I'm going to chime in here...... at least 2 hub seals were leaking and had been leaking for a very long period of time judging by the amount of grease and dirt caked on the drive axle brake drums and on the brake shoes rendering the drive axle braking almost useless. A leaking hub seal for those that do not know eventually coats the brake shoes with a layer of grease. That layer of grease eliminates the friction required for stopping. In the event of a required panic stop that coach would have traveled a much greater distance than the already lengthy stopping distances.

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Jon,

As we know, all braking, and especially panic braking, can generate substantial heat. Do you think that the excessive build up of greasy crud due to the leaking seal can increase the fire potential in a case like this?

If so, that only makes an already dangerous condition considerably worse....

Not only did Lifeline go way above and beyond their call to duty, to rectify the problem with my batteries, but our great friend and Lifer POG Member Tom "Truk4u" stepped up and facilitated this whole process. Without his steady assistance thru this process, I would have just been out of luck.

THANKS TOM FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP.

My bus will continue to wear the "Next Coach Will be a Country Coach Badge" with honor.

Thanks again to you and Mr. Godber @ Lifeline.

Gary S.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phorner

Jon,

As we know, all braking, and especially panic braking, can generate substantial heat. Do you think that the excessive build up of greasy crud due to the leaking seal can increase the fire potential in a case like this?

If so, that only makes an already dangerous condition considerably worse....

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Having dealt with a number of hub seal leaks on several coaches and leaks which have ranged from long term leaks to single 1300 mile trip leaks I think there is a potential for fire, but likely limited to the amount of fuel (grease) around the hub seal leak. Most of the flamable grease seems to collect in the wheel, at the end of the brake shoes (on drum brake coaches) and on the friction surface. The grease is contaminated with brake dust, sand and dirt unless it is new accumulation so that may impact the intensity of any fire. The grease I can easily envision igniting is the grease on the surface of the friction material which appears as a glaze on the drum and a semi hard glaze on the brake pad.

I still feel the loss of braking to be the most serious concern, but would not rule out the potential for a fire.

We used to have work done at Birdland, but we now feel the same as you do.They installed new inverters for us and one of them has not been right from day one, but nothing could be done about it. We don't go there anymore.Houston really needs a good and trustworthy service facility for Prevost.

Birdland Coach has an A+ rating with the BBB. Were any complaints registered with them? BBB doesn't report any, if so. Otherwise this will probably continue.

I will go back to Birdland after my wife does major maintenance on my coach. Been there 3 times and not 1 time was I pleased with the service. The last time was for service on my Aquahot, which I was given a price of $600.00 final cost was north of $1,300.00. I have done maintenance on it since.

Me thinks Birdland is run by a bunch of birds! Glad I don't live anywhere near them.

I have had mixed results with them. They changed out my house batteries, but I supplied the new ones. He fixed the fridge in the 2001 when everyone else said trash it. He also fixed my AquaHot and the cost was so high it prompted me to learn how to fix it myself, so I learned a lesson there.

Michael is a pretty good technician, but not necessarily a good businessman. You have to know what to take him and that unfortunately requires experience. Coach mechanical issues are not their strength but he seems to do some generator stuff okay.

It certainly is a shame that there is not a first rate RV repair facility in Houston. You have to know where to have various things done. I certainly had good luck with Stewart & Stevenson and I used a yacht place in Kemah that knew Cruisairs, the Birdland did a pretty good job on them as well. There are a few good AV gear guys, but none as good as Nick or the Marathon guys. I have also had pretty good luck with Prevost in Ft. Worth, where lots of folks have not.

Unfortunately it's just not a simple, straightforward solution. Really outstanding service usually comes with an impressive price. I'm usually okay with paying if the quality is there.

Yes.. it's a shame we don't have a good service facility in Houston... Lots of money and good friends to made if there was one !! We were luckily warned against Birdland after a quick visit there to have our batteries checked.. of course we didn't go back.
Very scary to think of the dangers of poor service quality !!

There is another place that Loc and I have taken our bus' too, and they have done pretty good work so far. They are replacing my house batteries for me, when Tom ships them directly from Lifeline to them.

The company is called: Fischers Diesel Service I know of some people that have not had good luck there, and some that have. A lot closer than Prevost Ft. Worth, which I have had good luck with also, just like JDUB.

http://www.fischersdieselservice.com/


Gary S.

When Jon was talking about grease fittings, I had some work done at Prevost and they changed oil and lubed the bus, when the wheels came off for some other work , I saw some grease fitting that had never been touch. the did lube them when I pointed them out. Unfortunitily they don't go under there with a diagram of what to grease, they just look for fittings, and if it is in a blind spot or caked with dirt if gets passed over. So you have to check everyones work.

While I would digress to common thinking of "Be there or ..." Perhaps one should have a print out of lube points to hand them. My very first oil change on my new to me bus was in a location just outside of Denver , Prevost ok'd, Country Coach ok'd, and yet they changed my oil with 15-30 instead of straight 40, which ALL the manuals say to use (40). They also did mention that there were a "few" grease points they found that looked ok, but they could not get to. Never did get my money back, but then, I haven't been back either.

I can easily speak to the grease fitting issue having greased my 87 and 97 coaches every 5000 miles. I have probably done about 70 or more lube jobs.

The front axle grease points relating to the steering are basic. Anyone that calls themselves a mechanic should be able to hit every one of them with their eyes closed. And just to be sure the "mechanic" can easily run his hand around every single moving part or joint in the steering linkage to feel for a fitting that might not be obvious although every one on both my coaches was plainly visible with the exception of the top kingpin fitting. That fitting you just know it is there.

The brake system grease fittings are a little less obvious, but a mechanic just has to know they are there. But if he doesn't all he has to do is look or feel. How hard can that be? But for those who are blind or have lost the sense of touch there is a diagram on the back doors or in the owner's manual. There is no excuse for missing grease fittings. My concern is if the shop isn't skilled enough to catch all the fittings then an owner should be bery afraid to take a coach for service. Missing a grease fitting on occasion is unlikely to have any real impact, but if the same lack of care applies to verifying there is lube in the hubs, or if the brakes are OK (good thickness of friction material, no cracks in the disks or drums, proper adjustment) then the owner may face serious risks or expensive consequences.

While our coaches are built for long term service and can easily go millions of miles that does not mean they are maintenance free. Doing the obvious such as changing oil or filters may make an owner feel the coach is being maintained, but that is far from true. The devil is in the details and as an owner you have the right and obligation to make sure anyone you charge with the responsibility to maintain your coach is doing a proper job. Trouble is the $hitty service facilities cannot be told from the good ones unless as an owner you develop enough of an understanding of your coach to ask the hard questions or better yet monitor their performance.

Over the years I have learned a lot about the coach, and while I am still learning I can say our Prevost coaches are relatively simple to maintain, but there is a lot to the maintenance because if it moves it needs lubricant, if it wears it needs replacing after a while, if it is rubber it cracks and deteriorates, and if it corrodes it needs protection. There are a lot of things that have to be considered and I know from experience that unless I use a checklist I cannot do a good job. While I can replace fluids, filters and lube the coach in a few hours I invest twice that each time because it takes time to review my records to verify I have caught everything scheduled, to take the time to do a detailed visual inspection to check for anything abnormal, and generally verify the coach is roadworthy.

It is very hard for a good service facility that has all the records to do a good service because it takes time and there are so many things that can be overlooked. If you find a shop that you trust and know to be concerned about quality stick with them and work with them to know your coach and set up a good program to maintain it. And be willing to pay a fair price. I'll bet the professionals on this forum will agree.

Gary makes a good point here about Fischers Diesel Service. I called to get an appointment to get some work done. They don't take appointments. You show up and it you are next in line, them you are good to go. Not guarantee to get the bus plugged in, so I would either have to rig it down for no power or auto gen it which might be a problem for them, so in the end I won't use them. Loc has done work with them and likes them okay.

I on the other hand I need schedules and comittmentes to do the work in the allotted time or keep the bus plugged in.

Everyone,
The deal changed at Birdland some time ago. Unfortunately, it changed for the worse, and that probably is not good grammar.
It is a shame because we need a good high end service facility in Houston.
Stay tuned, we are at work.
Pres

We need the Pres in the maintenance business!