New, have questions...

We have been researching and dreaming of owning an RV for about 3 years. Never thought we'd be prevost owners but we bought a 1996 XL45 Le Mirage last week. Bill has a lot of experience with detroit engines, so I was comfortable with the decision to complete the transaction, even though the seller knew nothing about the operation of any of the systems. (long story) The interior is beautiful and the price was right for us. We drove her the 500 miles home and Bill said she drove like a dream. We are figuring things out little by little and still thinking we can do this! The first question we have is-- can the roof ACs run off the engine as we go down the road, without running the generator? Any information, advice, help, is welcome!

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Originally Posted by billc

The first question we have is-- can the roof ACs run off the engine as we go down the road, without running the generator? Any information, advice, help, is welcome!

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First, welcome to the group. We will try to answer your questions and some of the answers may even be helpful.
The short answer is "no" on most coaches. A few coaches are set up to run 1 or maybe 2 roof airs from the inverters, but the general view is that running the generator to run the roof airs is the way to go. Less of a load on the inverters, alternator and engine, and it exercises the generator. Most gennys never run enough or under enough load. I am at 4000 hrs on my generator and it runs great. I never hesitate to run it to work the roof airs.

Welcome to this GROUP! I too, bought my bus without a lot of information forthcoming from the previous owner. That said, as time goes by and you become more comfortable (as we have) , it enhances your experience. You have spent your first monies well, joining POG. Get the Skiff to get you a couple of POG stickers for the bus/toad so we all know who you are. Also, put some info on your Avatar, the conversion (Marathon,Country Coach, Angola, and ahem, Liberty) so that those owners with similar conversions are able to help even more. You must be from Colorado and there are some great POG people there. We will be there soon, in the "Springs" area for a few weeks. I am sure you will be overwhemed at first, but these Pog People really make it much easier and with a great $$$ savings. Enjoy

What brand of Conversion did you purchase? This makes a huge difference in answering your question. Also, please note the Brand and Model of inverters in your coach. Production year 1996 was the start of the inverter-powered a/c's while driving down the road. Bear in mind, however, that if one or two plus the dash aren't enough, as Andre mentioned, just run the generator. Factory service technicians will tell you that the RV generators are their most problematic because they are not used enough. The same can be said for Prevost Over-the-Road A/C systems. The same generator in the "entertainer" or industrial applications that are run almost constantly yield VERY few problems, in comparison, because of their continual use.

These are how the convertors "generally" equipped their products:
Vantare's and Marathon coaches, if equipped with the Trace/Xantrex SW4024 inverters can run one a/c on each inverter while driving, for a total of 2. Royale coaches are usually set up, if they are equipped with the SW2512 inverters, to run one and generally that's the center a/c. Vogue's around that vintage were also set up to run one a/c, and that was the center or #2 as well. Angolas are a similar story, except for several relays to allow you to chose which one you run. Liberty coaches, because almost all are equipped with Prevost "Bus Air," were never equipped as factory to run rooftop a/c's. As a general rule, never attempt it if your coach has Bus Air, because the alternator can only support one or the other, not both concurrently.

Ben,
How much current does the OTR A/C pull? I noticed on your website you do the alternator upgrade, and remember the salesman at Parliament pointing that feature out to us on the new Parliament coaches. I am just curious about the loads on the alternator / invertors going down the road (I have Prevost OTR on my Marathon).
Thanks

Bill & Jan, Welcome to the group. You'll find allot valuable information on the site and when you get time read the old posts. What part of CO. are you from?

Bill and Jan, welcome to the site. I to am new to the prevost world. I have learned so much from the past and present posts from this site. I stand in front of my coach, which is being service at Coach works they are the best, just bewildered with all that i need to know and understand. With the help of the boys at Coach Works i started to understand what to do and what not to do. It will take time to master, if that is possible, but the love of this hobby and the desire to learn, I am going to master this challenge and love doing it. You to will have times saying OMG! i will never get it to much to remember, but it will come back to. Remember the more you use it, the easier it gets. Make it fun not work, go at your own speed. Everyone on this site will help you with any problem that you will have, all you have to do is ask. George

Welcome to the asylum Bill. As has been pointed out put your coach description in the signature line so answers to your questions can be specific to your conversion and model year.

You will always get answers to your questions here and on certain rare occasions we may mess up and actually provide the correct answer.

I will provide a very general answer to your question, and you have to keep in mind unless my over the road air quits I never run my house airs going down the highway. But back to your question. To run any air conditioner regardless of the source of power, it is going to require power. If it is run through your inverters, then that source of power is your alternator feeding the batteries, which provide the basis for the AC power. Of course the alternator takes its power from the bus engine.

Or you can run the generator, and then set the thermostats and turn on all the AC units and keep the entire coach comfortable. It is unlikely that running the generator will have an impact on fuel consumption such that you will want to suffer in the hot temperatures we have been having, compared to having the entire bus comfortable.

If you never allow your coach to get heat soaked, when you do connect to shore power you will not have to do much energy management to live on 50 amp service and have a cool bedroom.

There is and always has been a reluctance for owners to run their generators. That is the worst thing you can do. Run your generator often and run it hard by loading it up. Entertainer coaches run their generators almost from the moment that pull away from the curb heading for a tour, and do not turn them off until the tour is over. The generators are going to deliver 30,000 hours of life if you exercise them. If you baby them or rarely run your generator you will get to know generator repair people.

Welcome Bill and Jan. Where in Colorado are you? Wray?

Thank you all for your replies. Bill read them last night after we came home from the Yuma County Fair. Yes, Jim and Chris, we are in Wray. Wray is on the eastern plains of Colorado, we farm and ranch. I have read and re-read many of the topics on this forum. (and will again I'm sure, as we begin to understand the systems more)

The original conversion was done by Superior. It was recently redone, last year, and I believe this was done in Kentucky, I'll have to check that. All the appliances are new and still have the plastic coverings. Most of the electrical wiring was replaced also, to my understanding. I think Bill will find some time to check in inverters today. There are four roof top ACs, all new.

Are there any absolute DO NOTS or DOs we need to know? I thought fewer hours on a generator was better just because the rental companies we used charged extra for going over their allotment. Good to know! Maybe there is already a topic that addresses some do's and don'ts, I'll look again.

I'll take photos, maybe someone will "know" our new baby, only a week with us now!

Welcome to POG. If you hang around here for a while youll learn a lot about do's and don'ts , also you can search thru different threads previously posted about any subject. Generally speaking, generators need to be used and operated under a sizable load monthly. You won't wear out a generator in these coaches unless it is your exclusive source of power all the time. Just keep it maintained per its maintenance schedule. Enjoy

Bill,

We all have learned about the do's and don't's and in some cases our education comes the hard way. Superior is not a converter represented here so any answers we give you have to be in the context of generalities rather than specific to your coach or converter.

Over the years there are postings on this and similar forum about things you shouldn't do. I think at the top of the list has to be don't forget to empty your holding tank. I know there are sensors, I know there are ways we remind ourselves to empty it, but no matter how you intend to be assured it never has its capacity exceeded, be sure to remember to dump the tank before your shower (or worse, your floor) gets flooded.

Not so obvious, often an expensive lesson is maintaining the batteries. They are critical to enjoying the coach and if you can study the topic of charging batteries and make absolutely certain your inverters are set up or programmed with the correct charging protocol for your type of house batteries. What may be fine for lead/acid batteries in terms of charging voltages may ruin a set of gel cell batteries in a short amount of time. If you can, limit the discharge of your batteries to around 50% to get the maximum life from them. Deep discharges shorten the number of charging cycles which impacts the life of the batteries. A lot of autostart systems on the generators are set with a battery voltage that is too low and the life of the batteries will be compromised. Conversely, pay attention to your charging protocol. Some inverters always go into bulk charge (higher voltage) every time power is reapplied to the inverters, such as when connecting to shore power. If the batteries are fully charged, and then they get hit with bulk charge voltages they could get damaged. The best thing to do is understand how your systems and inverters are set up and manage their operation so your batteries are not damaged. Some systems will do that for you, some require you to adjust things manually.

Don't fail to recognize the coach takes up a lot of real estate to negotiate a turn. There are a number of us who have had some body work done because the coach scraped low lying rocks or posts on the inside of a turn. Ditto on the height. Don't ignore the fact low bridges or tree limbs will play hell with your roof and anything sticking up from it. You've been warned and if you fail to listen to the warning you may get an award at one of our rallies.

Don't leave the bus parked at home for months on end. The worst thing any of us can do to our coaches is let them sit. They were designed and built to be run for many miles and they have fewer problems if they are used often. By using the coach you are exercising all the systems and the adage "use it or lose it" was probably first said by a Prevost owner. There are a lot of moving parts in a bus and those parts such as the leveling system valves are less likely to become problems if used regularly.

Don't let the little things that go wrong accumulate. I think every one of us has a list at the end of a trip that includes all the minor stuff that needs attention. Everything from a loose cabinet door hinge to a light bulb that needs replacement will be on the list. But the list may also include some items such as a temperature reading that might be a needle width higher than what is normal. Those little things if ignored can become show stoppers. Do investigate stuff like that and make sure it is not a sign of an impending problem. If you end up on the side of the road with a serious problem that was developing over time you will be kicking yourself when the service company gives your the bill. They know you have money because you drive a Prevost and they will bill you accordingly.

And speaking personally, don't forget to release the parking brake on your toad.

And, as an addendum to Jon's note about releasing the parking brake, if your tow vehicle has a steering lock out, be sure the key is in the correct position to enable the steering to follow the bus, not just be locked up in the "tire destroying" position. (Confession is good for one's soul!)

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Originally Posted by rahangman

And, as an addendum to Jon's note about releasing the parking brake, if your tow vehicle has a steering lock out, be sure the key is in the correct position to enable the steering to follow the bus, not just be locked up in the "tire destroying" position. (Confession is good for one's soul!)

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Rodger are you saying you left the steering in Railroad Mode? :eek::D

JIM:)

Wellllllll, in short, yes. Just bought the new Toad, and on the way to Ohio stopped in Indy for dinner and when we came out to finish trip, did the walk around, checked everything inside GC including emer brake, transmission in P and Gearcase in N, key, ooops.....missed the slot. I am having that removed so that it cannot happen again. 2 new front tires when arrived at destination. Went back to unhook and smelled rubber, knew right away, looked at tires, saw cords !!! felt heat and no tread. Lucky we did not have a blow out. Kinda thought that the Tattle Trail might have picked it up, but didn't. Good thing I70 from Indy to Dayton is mostly straight, and I75 from Dayton to Bowling Green also. Whew, talk about a lesson learned. I feel better already.

Glad everything turned out to be minor, say wondering about the Tattle Trail, does it pick up anything good and worthwhile. Just wondering, seems expensive for what it is. I think it is priced over the perceived market value, can't be much cost in the product. Do you still think it was a worth while purchase?

JIM:)

Jim I have the Tattle Trail and so far I think it is going to do the job. But, I think as users we can ruin its benefit.

It operates by sensing an out of level condition, but also by sensing vibrations or impacts, such as expansion joints. Roads do not have the same surface texture so a smooth road will produce no sound unless there is a problem such as a tiure going flat. Then the alarm will sound with an increasing level to connote a sense of urgency.

But road conditions vary. In the northeast on the trip to Maine the roads went from good to smooth to crappy within a few miles. With a change to the worse the Tattle Trail would yelp. I have learned to leave the setting where it normally sets for the average road and to differentiate between rough roads and what might be a failing tire.

However never having a flat or blowout while using the tattle trail I am only expressing theory. The reason I opted for the Tattle Trail was because I can switch to either of our toads with ease. If I only had a single toad I may have preferred another choice. So far for me it is a good choice. But I will report back after I get my first flat. It does not warn of any issues with the bus.

Thanks for the report. I will be looking for follow up opinions and experiences with the gizmo.

JIM;)

To me the ideal gizmo given I could tow our H2 or the pickup is one in which the toad tires with sensors are seen by the receiver so I don't have to reprogram or move sensors. I also want in my ideal gizmo a sensor that is not the only thing standing between the air pressure and the atmosphere. I have the fill-thru-cap type valve stem covers and since putting them on I haven't have to adjust tire pressures more than a pound or two regardless of how long it has been between trips. Having that double seal cures whatever small leakages may be experienced through the normal Schrader valves.

In other words the band type sensors seem to be the ideal, but the receiver needs to be programmed if we go from one toad to another.

I will not consider the sensors that screw on the valve stem. I not only lose the double seal, but I cannot leave my valve stems as they are and easily fill the tires. So until the ideal tire pressure monitoring system comes along I will check tires the old fashioned way, by hand.

The Tattle Trail in my opinion is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but I am willing to risk that it works. The last time I lost a tire on the toad I felt it pop and sensed a slight tug while going 62.5 on I-90 just east of Mentor. The tire had a huge hole in the side and I got it stopped so quickly the tire never had a chance to start to come apart or break the bead on the rim. If I am not so lucky to catch it the next time I hope the Tattle Trail does it for me.

Jim/Jon, I bought the TT in lieu of a TPMS for the sensors that Jon talks about. I have the same valve covers (I think) as Jon and it made a difference for me to not add air all the time. I do the old fashioned "job" with a good gage as Jon. The TT took a little time to learn how to adjust for a rough stretch of road, but I can only hope it saves me a horrible experience.

I have learned with the TT to adjust it for the typical surface. On mine that means the receiver knob is set around 11:00 O'Clock. With every pothole or bridge expansion joint I get a very quiet little chirp and I am anticipating that now. It is not intrusive and is a constant reminder to me the device is doing its job.

When we hit a long stretch of rough(er) road and the chirping becomes louder and more insistent I can adjust the control knob a little higher, but I have to remember to dial it back when the road smooths out. I actually hope to never find out if the TT works, but I do know that if the H2 is vibrating such as on a lousy road or presumably due to a failed tire the TT will let you know. The real strength of the TT is its simplicity. Plug the sending unit into the 12V socket on the toad and stick the sender to the windshield using the suction cups. It senses when it is level and the light turns green.

The receiver on my coach is attached to the driver's side window so it can easily receive the signal, and is plugged into 12V. I can adjust the know easily. The lights have multiple purposes, including telling you the sender has lost power or the sender has fallen from the windshield. It doesn't get any simpler.

Welcome Bill & Jan. We have the same year make and model only our conversion was by Vogue. Looking foward to meeting you someday. We were in Durango just last week for a week. You have a beautiful state from the corner we saw it from.

Thanks for all the helpful tips. Would love to meet you all!! We are still in the "overwhelmed stage". Last night we were running the generator and after about one hour the lights began to blink, went out, then came back on. This happened 3-4 times. Not all the lights just the front room or the bedroom. Added that to the list.

We are in the opposite corner of the state from Durango. A completely different view, but still beautiful!!

Rodger,

Don't feel bad. On my trip to San Diego in 2008 we stopped at a campground in Phoenix for an overnight. We left from OKC that morning. My usual routine when I get to the campground office is for Carole to go in and register while I unhitch the toad and get the transfer case shifted out of neutral. That involves setting the hand brake and moving the ignition key from its first unlocked off position. Well registration went too fast, Carole came out and told me we had a pull through big enough to pull the toad straight in. OK, now what I forgot was to put my mind in gear. Yes, I got back in the coach, yes a Prevost will drag a 5,800 pound toad around a campground without breaking a sweat, and yes that will ruin the rear tires by flat spotting them and make the front tires really funny feeling when driven "normally." Cost two new Michelins in Phoenix and two new ones backl home in Southern Pines. Now I do not stop unhooking for any reason. Period!

I'm also surprised The King of Bling has not chipped in with his advice. If you want to make sure your fuel tank is full, fill it up AFTER eating lunch at a truck stop, not BEFORE the meal. I think Roger holds the record for shortest distance driven on a "full" tank of fuel! I can't explain why he would want to eat anything at a truck stop cafe unless it was in his bucket list. I think he also said something about using his Mini toad to push the dead Prevost up a rest area ramp. I have not seen the video so I'm not believing that yet.

One other piece of advice. Carry a replacement set of fuel filters with you at all times. If you feel the motor is losing power (check your turbo boost guage) then find a place to change the filters out. That usually resolves the problem.

Oh yes, welcome to POG Bill and Jan. Take in a rally real soon, Kerrville TX comes to mind as maybe being closer to you guys that us East Coasters. Its always a lot of fun and you may actually learn something. Of course, being farmers, I'm sure you have no fear of the sheep. Sometimes they can be found in the early morning hours at a POG rally!