Frantic in Kerrville

I sure could use some help!
We are at Buckhorn and went to visit friends in San Angelo for a couple of days and left the coach on its own. Upon return after 36 hours we found the generator running and the gauges show full voltage on line #2 and 0 volts on line #1. I have no power to the refrig, forward outlets. The Hearts show one shut down (how do you restart it?) and the other seems normal but hard for me to evaluate.
I have checked the power at the post and it is wired correctly and delivering 125 volts on each leg. Problem seems like it is in the coach.
The manuals tell me to look in the "110 volt panel". Don't know where that is, doh.
Any help would be most appreciated; hate to think what will happen to the provisions in the refrig....

Chuck, Somewhere in the Bus you have to have a circuit breaker panel just like the one in your house. Find it and start there. Check to see which breaker has tripped. That has to be the starting point. Tell us what you find and I'm sure you will get all the help you need on this forum.

Chuck,

I'm only 1 year difference than yours. Your 110 volt panel is the one in your galley that has all the breakers and switches. There is a breaker for inverter number 1 and 2. Assuming the breaker isn't tripped and you don't know how to reset the inverters, you can unplug from shore power, shut gen off and throw the inverter master switch that is in the 2nd bay drivers side with your inverters and that will shut off all battery power to the inverters. Then plug in the shore power, turn the master back on and see if that brings your dead inverter back to life.

You will not get 110 v power back to the circuit for your fridge, outlets or other sources on that leg without the inverter. It flows through and without a by-pass switch, you will be without power.

I don't have Heart inverters, so I can't tell you how to reset them without removing all power as I suggested above. It should be a simple matter of turning the inverters off and then back on with the remotes or manually at the inverters.

By the way, there is no way to get to the power supply for your fridge without removing it. There is a way to rig up an alternate power source that I can help you with after you get through your present problem, but it involves a one time removal of the fridge.

Bruce,
Thanks for the prompt reply.
The breaker panel is right in the kitchen area and easy to access. None of the breakers were tripped but just to be safe, I cycled them. Still no power to the front 110 volt circuits which upon inventory include the microwave, refrigerator, wall outlets and TV. I have had to move my laptop to the bathroom for power and now communicate while sitting on the toilet with the laptop balanced on the countertop (nice visual, eh?)
Wish I had stopped in for the Oysterfest, perhaps this would have happened there and Truk would instantly analyze and cure it....
I still have it in my head that somehow one side of the 220 line has disconnected inside the coach. Pedestal is still reading OK.
Must be something simple, but what?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Charles Spera

Bruce,
Thanks for the prompt reply.
The breaker panel is right in the kitchen area and easy to access. None of the breakers were tripped but just to be safe, I cycled them. Still no power to the front 110 volt circuits which upon inventory include the microwave, refrigerator, wall outlets and TV. I have had to move my laptop to the bathroom for power and now communicate while sitting on the toilet with the laptop balanced on the countertop (nice visual, eh?)
Wish I had stopped in for the Oysterfest, perhaps this would have happened there and Truk would instantly analyze and cure it....
I still have it in my head that somehow one side of the 220 line has disconnected inside the coach. Pedestal is still reading OK.
Must be something simple, but what?

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If you can find the inverters, look at them for a reset button or switch. I have had to reset one of mine when I had somewhat similar issues. Mine is a Trace, but it could be a similar fix.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Charles Spera

I sure could use some help!
We are at Buckhorn and went to visit friends in San Angelo for a couple of days and left the coach on its own. Upon return after 36 hours we found the generator running and the gauges show full voltage on line #2 and 0 volts on line #1. I have no power to the refrig, forward outlets. The Hearts show one shut down (how do you restart it?) and the other seems normal but hard for me to evaluate.
I have checked the power at the post and it is wired correctly and delivering 125 volts on each leg. Problem seems like it is in the coach.
The manuals tell me to look in the "110 volt panel". Don't know where that is, doh.
Any help would be most appreciated; hate to think what will happen to the provisions in the refrig....

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Chuck, here is a picture of my panel, it is in the kitchen area. Look to see if a breaker has tripped, also turn the on, off switch on the meter panel, the right hand one is just above the word coach, to off and wait a long moment and turn on to see if it resets. There are two of these switches, one for each inverter.
I could not rotate the picture to proper viewing position, but I think you get the idea. The absence of a cooling fan in the inverter can cause it to shut down when the inverter gets too hot. After it cools down it should run until it gets hot again.


JIM

Here is a better view of the on off switches.

Thanks Guys,
I tried the on/off remote switch with a 60 second delay...no joy.
I can see my invertors in the belly compartment and if I make myself real skinny I can reach the reset switch and flip it...no joy.
I tried the remove the shoreline, shut off generator, throw main battery/invertor switch and got a momentary operation when the battery/invertor was turned back on and before the shore line was re-attached, then back to square one...no joy.

Nuts!

Are the wires attached properly in the plug?

Pull the plug out of the receptacle and if it is a Hubble brand or similar, not molded on, you can disassemble it and check the connections.

Start at the plug and work your way to the inverters.

Some have had trouble at the inside end of the shore cord where it is connected to the bus.

If you have a spare cord, plug it into the bus in the bay. That would proof out your shore cord.

JIM

I would doubt the problem is in the electrical cord. In your original post you stated the generator was running when you returned to the bus. Your problem seems to be both on gen power and shore power. That being true I would check items that are inline to both of these power supplies.

Charles,

I will presume your coach was set with autostart. I will also presume the reason the generator kicked on was your inverter that handles the circuits described has had a failure, the house batteries lost power due to the loads on them and the generator kicked on.

The inverters have several potential power input failures ranging from the circuit breakers in the electrical panel and the switch on the remote panel to the circuit breakers on the front panel of the inverter itself. It sounds like you either reset or checked it all.

The inverters you have sense incoming shore or generator power and when that power is available they switch via heavy duty Potter Brumfield relays mounted on the front panel to pass shore or generator power through the relay to the circuits you have lost, and to switch the inverter from an inverter to a battery charger. If these relays fail to switch, either due to a failed relay or due to a defective control board your inverter will not function as needed.

This is solely a guess, but since you cannot get 120VAC power to the circuits described either through the inverter via shore power, or through the inverter as an inverter I think you have an inverter that has failed.

Those inverters have reached the point where they are being supported with repair parts, but the manufacturer has attached punishing prices to repair parts. Your choice is clear. Decide if you wish to retain your present inverters (despite the cost probably the cheapest approach) or to spend some serious money to change them out for newer ones, including what ever costs are associated with running wires for remote panels.

We can get into greater detail on this if you wish. See my previous thread about the care and feeding of inverters because it gives a phone number of a guy that can help with repairs or further diagnosis.

Chuck..........see your PM's. I sent you one.

Could it be a GFI?

The shore cord looks good so I am now thinking the next area to look is the transfer switch; wherever that is located.

Just a thought, we once lost power on one leg of the coach (dryer, stove etc), and turned out the shore post was at fault. We changed sites, and Voila, Joy as you say!

Chuck,

I understand why you are hoping to find the problem in the power supply or the transfer switch. To put that question behind you and allow you to zero in on the problem turn off shore power and the generator and allow the inverters to function.

If doing that still fails to deliver power to the circuits in question, you can start to assume the issue lies with the inverter. On your coach like mine Liberty has provided input power to the inverters via the circuits marked "battery charger 1 and battery charger 2". Access the inverter in question, and carefully verify if you have power on the input wires. You will need shore power or generator power input to do this. Be careful. There should be two sets of input wires to each inverter, one set going to the inverter input, the other set going to the battery charger circuit. They are connected in your house electrical panel to the same circuit breaker.

If you have input power, but no output power the problem lies with the inverter, and as I said previously I would look first at the P&B relay.

Drafted an answer a bit ago and somehow lost it before posting, so....
Chris Burkard' (210 422-0489) RV Repair extraordinaire came to the coach and, being thin, was able to get back into the invertors and find that yours truly is as blind as a bat.
Apparently I had missed the open circuit breaker that disabled it. Pushing it back in has us working fine and hoping that whatever caused it to pop in the first place was an anomoly...we'll see.
Once again, I have learned a great deal more about my coach through the help of a great group of people. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
You should see the big smile on Barb now!

Chuck,

It could have been an anomoly. More likely however is the circuit breaker is old and tired, or there is a glitch causing it to trip.

The circuit breakers are quite common so if it trips again, go to WW Grainger or equivalent and get a replacement and install it. If the new one trips you have an internal inverter problem. The CB trip could have been caused by something as simple as overloading the circuit (DUH!).

Do you use a surge protector inline with your coach. Check older threads, and you'll find several about protectors that protect you not only for surge, but for under voltage as well. Maybe your line took a hit, and luckily only a break popped. I believe that Gordon Dean had a voltage issue out at Kerrville, returned to his coach to find generator running, or inverting itself to death.

ray

I think Chuck first needs to see if the CB trips again. I have many of that type on the plane and with age they tend to pop. I have replaced other CBs on both my coaches and I know other POG members have also dealt with breakers of that type or larger that just decided to trip for no reason.

I'm not ruling out funky power from the shore power, but I'm of the mindset that is inclined to focus on the root cause of the inverter failure, and when that simple fix is proven to not cure the problem then it is time to look more extensively.