THE FINAL AX!!
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms...8-41/story.csp
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THE FINAL AX!!
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms...8-41/story.csp
Sad to see another converter going down for good. But maybe in the long run it will benefit and strengthen the remaining ones....Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloradobus
Yes Mark, it is very sad. We have had 2 Country Coaches: an Affinity and a bus. In the early years of 2000, we had a few nice visits at what we called Camp Country Coach, the repair facility campground on 6th street in Junction City. And at that time, we made some great life long friends.
Our Affinity was a spectacular coach, and we would still have it if we didn't have MPD.
Hopefully, the pieces can be re-assemlbed, but in this market, money will still be at issue.:(
Jim and Chris, I also had an Affinity 1999 that was a real joy and I also wish I had never sold it. CC built a good machine up until the mid to late 2004 era then things seemed to go sideways with QC.
If CC could have been under the management of someone other that the Howards they may have been able to pull it off. My opinion, shared by many.
I have purchased several companies that were in Chapter 11. I have purchased equipment from companies being liquidated. I have not yet seen a distressed company whose failure could be tied to anything other than management.
I have a real dislike of company owners and managers that treat the companies like their personal toy box, looting its assets so they can live the high life while allowing the company to slip towards failure. If in fact CC is liquidated those that mismanaged the company not only screwed investors, unsecured creditors, secured creditors, their vendors, the community, the employees, and public entities such as industrial development agencies, but they have screwed their customers.
It is virtually impossible for anyone to come out of a situation like this whole.
Customers will see depreciated values, a serious loss of ability to make repairs, and all the technical documentation necessary to recreate proprietary parts scattered or resting in a landfill. Now is the time for CC owners to form an alliance and get control of the engineering and purchasing data, whether it is in the form of a conversion company buying the intellectual materials to provide continued support, or a CC owners group. Ironically, that information is going to carry the lowest value in a liquidation sale, but to the hundreds of owners who wish to maintain their coaches it will be worth its weight in gold.
Miles, Any way to obtain the engineering and purchasing data Jon speaks about ?
I think that you may find that by the time a company reaches chapter 7, all items sold are handled by the court or its designee..........the trustee.
I noticed that Bob Lee aka Lee Joint Ventures, has terminated the lease on the land and buildings effective on Monday; my best guess is that this is a long running battle between Lee and the Howard boys. I wouldn't be surprised if Lee prevails at the end of the day picks up the pieces and starts afresh.
John, If your analysis is correct this would be in the best interest of all Country Coach owners.
Jon, Your comments above seem to be spot on about MISmanagement.
However it was manuevered, the Howards were placed in charge of Country Coach. This has been a big headscratcher. With failures of Destinations RV dealerships, to Safari MotorCoach in the past, we had a feeling Country Coach's days were numbered.
March 2003, CC SnowBird Rally, Las Vegas at Circus Circus, we were rally participants with our 2002 XLII Marathon. At our final night's dinner, Jay Howard spoke and made some sorry and uncalled for comments on S.O.B. (some other brand) motorhomes. With those comments, a murmurring "boo" went acrossed the room. Stunned, those around us, us included, left the room.
We didn't return to a CC rally, until Terry Lee and Jerry and Sherry O'connor asked thru firends, if we were coming again. So, in Feb 2008, SnowBird Rally, Tucson Beaudry RV Resort, we went to that rally with the "H"3-45 Marathon. Had great time.
We just steered clear of maangement.
If your going to attempt to sale a $650,000 to $895,000 Plastic Coach in this market today, you had better be the best of the best.
I have not seen a new Country Coach in years but it seems to me they were making coaches which no one wanted to buy.
I had recieved fliers and e mails, and letters from CC in the last year. It seems they were trying to find a market for their product rather thanbuilding a product the market wanted.
That would make Bob Lee the "white knight", a position I have been in.Quote:
Originally Posted by flyu2there
This whole thing has gone beyond the creditor's committee and appears the court is now the last thing between Chapter 11 and 7. If I were to bet, it is over. Maybe not today, but once the first domino falls, that is the first piece of the corporation is sold off to satisfy creditors who now just want to get a few cents on the dollar it will never be re-assembled.
The only way I can see somebody stepping in to keep it going as an entity is if the creditors and the courts allow it. I can tell you that months will go by before anyone could put it together that way because as the "white knight" nobody will assume the risk from contingent liabilities, or from disgruntled creditors, and no lending institution will be providing working capital or other loans necessary without being in first position, something current secured creditors will never give up. There is far too much negotiations required before anyone can emerge to keep it going. Once production ceases, skilled workers are scattered, vendors go away, and customers disappear thoughts of saving the entity become nothing more than wishfull thinking.
If Miles or any entity can get the intellectual materials it appears to be the only hope to be able to maintain the more complex proprietary design features. The good news is that a liquidation takes a little time to set up so if anyone is interested in aquiring that stuff there is a little time.
The Howards and their creditors own the brand, some tools, probably a couple of pencil sharpners and some inventory but, the plant, facilities and real property are clearly in the hands of Bob Lee. Now, what do you think he is going to do with all of that?
There's been so many auto companies over the years who have gone under only to have the name come back with new owners. Country Coach used to have a very good Brand, maybe someone will pick it up and start over.
Current CC owners will not benefit at all if the company springs back as just a new company with the CC name. Current owners need continuity. If any one person controls the hard assets but not the intellectual materials that person (or entity) will likely start over with a new design.
But let's get reasonable. What exactly has changed that will make a company or product line suddenly successful when it has not been, even if we totally ignore the fact that the economy still sucks?
Here is a link that may relieve some anxiety when you call CC for parts and hear the lady say....."the number you have reached is not in service at this time, please be sure you have the right number in mind and .........."
http://specialtycoachparts.com/
As a Vogue V owner I can say that the demise of the company has not been a major factor. There are at least two repair facilities that specialize in the brand - a direct result of the death of the company. In fact the guy who now works on my coach also helped design it and watched it go through the line during assembly. The water pump, toilet, hydronic heating, water tank, washer/dryer , leveling mechanism etc. are all common to high end coaches. If this is true of a minor player like Vogue it will be even more so with CC. In fact there may be more service available as the skilled workers seek to continue in a business that they know very well.
Wave
Thanks Jon (and all the POGS) as even in my first year as a POG member, I have easily saved my $100 . Being somewhat concerned at being an Orphan owner on my first & only coach (so far) it is comforting to know that there is a way to get information at least some to enable me to work out problems without plunking down my wallet and holding my breath.
I do not think anyone who has an "orphan" is out of luck. It complicates getting proprietary parts and technical advice, but so far I am not aware of anybody owning any brand that was not able to resolve a problem.
I suspect as coaches get more complex and contain sophisticated componentry problem solution will also get more difficult, but not impossible.
There are a lot of coaches whose converters are no longer in business or supporting the product. I doubt if any are sitting up on blocks on the front lawn because they are not driveable. (Unless they are from TN, in which case that's how we park all our vehicles.)
I am sure the trustee is pursuing all avenues including a Section 363 sale of the assets as the best recovery for the creditors. It could avoid contingent liability issues. I wouldnt be surprised to see a Bob Lee sponsored company emerge from the ashes.
Loc,
I would disagree to the extent that any potential liabilities such as arising from an accident, will follow the assets. Whoever gets the bulk of the assets cannot shake the tail.
So looking at this and pretending to be a Bob Lee, I start out with no less than two big strikes against me. First the liability issue which may not be that large, but the second is the market sucks. We all can point to enormous upside potential, but in reality unless we can put a date on that potential market upswing any newcomer to this market has just assumed huge risk.
Given that serious players in the RV market are all struggling just to still be alive when the market finally turns, tackling a start-up (which this will be) is going to be very difficult, made more so by the likely lack of funding for such silly things as working capital, receivables, inventory, etc.
Jon,
Under section 363(f) of the Bankruptcy Code, buyers acquire the assets sold in a 363 Sale free and clear of liens or other claims and obtain rubber-stamp approval that the sale was in good faith. Additionally, section 363(m) of the Bankruptcy Code essentially moots appeals of the sale, thereby providing finality to the sale.
I had the unfortunate first hand experience of being a creditor in a case where a 363 Sale was used.
Loc