2010 Liberty Coach

Liberty is the first converter to have a true 2010 model H3-45 in stock. It is a tripple slide with two slides in the bedroom. Looking at the pictures on their web site, I could not see the compartment for OTR. I called and confirmed that the tripple slide does NOT have OTR, because of weight. I was told they have 8 batteries and 4 inverters, which will run all 4 cruise airs, plus an evaporator in the compartment under the driver seat to cool the cockpit area, and that it does a good job. Personally, I would rather have the OTR than an extra bedroom slide. I really enjoy the OTR when travelling in hot weather.

It's good Liberty had really cleaned up their interior and had opted for more subtle artistic features.

I know Jon has this pattern cut into his window shades so it creates the same late afternoon mosaic on his carpet.

Attachment 5777

It really works with the casino chic motif.

JDUB, Has it ever occurred to you that some of us want coaches that look like bordellos and have a little decorative flair, than rather austere coaches that have the ambiance of a prison cafeteria?

Ed, Undoubtedly eliminating the OTR, and then explaining it by saying it saves weight seems just a little questionable. But what do I know. The four extra batteries are gong to weigh around 640 pounds. I would guess two more inverters are going add another 80, and with the heavy copper cables I would guess 20 more. If I were to guess the Prevost OTR system components would not weigh much more if at all.

But....I can understand why OTR doesn't make sense. All of our OTR air flow in a conversion has to be balanced and directed properly to avoid hot and cold spots. Typically it is ducted to flow up across the windows, and is vented in various places across the front for the driver and passenger. If 3/4 of the coach is taken up with slides and ducting cannot be feasible for OTR in the slide areas it just about limits OTR as being practical unless it is ducted up and across the ceiling, something that may bring about other issues.

I just hope the AC units are not Cruise Airs because their performance when sucking heated air from the road surface is just plain lousy.

But to run four AC units from inverters raises another concern. At 24 volts each AC unit will pull around 65 amps. The total is 260 amps if all four are running. So going down the road it is likely that with other loads the house batteries will actually be discharging assuming the bus has a 270 amp alternator. If it has dual alternators that issue goes away, but then the weight argument about OTR looms again. Those big alternators are about 120 pounds.

With three and possibly four slides the converters, all of them, not just Liberty have some serious design challenges, weight being the first consideration, but having appropriate systems to replace OTR certainly comes into play. As floor space increases so does the number of AC units really needed to handle the loads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg

JDUB, Has it ever occurred to you that some of us want coaches that look like bordellos and have a little decorative flair, than rather austere coaches that have the ambiance of a prison cafeteria?

Ed, Undoubtedly eliminating the OTR, and then explaining it by saying it saves weight seems just a little questionable. But what do I know. The four extra batteries are gong to weigh around 640 pounds. I would guess two more inverters are going add another 80, and with the heavy copper cables I would guess 20 more. If I were to guess the Prevost OTR system components would not weigh much more if at all.

But....I can understand why OTR doesn't make sense. All of our OTR air flow in a conversion has to be balanced and directed properly to avoid hot and cold spots. Typically it is ducted to flow up across the windows, and is vented in various places across the front for the driver and passenger. If 3/4 of the coach is taken up with slides and ducting cannot be feasible for OTR in the slide areas it just about limits OTR as being practical unless it is ducted up and across the ceiling, something that may bring about other issues.

I just hope the AC units are not Cruise Airs because their performance when sucking heated air from the road surface is just plain lousy.

But to run four AC units from inverters raises another concern. At 24 volts each AC unit will pull around 65 amps. The total is 260 amps if all four are running. So going down the road it is likely that with other loads the house batteries will actually be discharging assuming the bus has a 270 amp alternator. If it has dual alternators that issue goes away, but then the weight argument about OTR looms again. Those big alternators are about 120 pounds.

With three and possibly four slides the converters, all of them, not just Liberty have some serious design challenges, weight being the first consideration, but having appropriate systems to replace OTR certainly comes into play. As floor space increases so does the number of AC units really needed to handle the loads.

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Makes me proud to own a simple no slide OTR equipped prison bus.....

"Makes me proud to own a simple no slide OTR equipped prison bus....."

Yea, and I'm happy (for now) with the bordello equiped with OTR Air.

Buy the way, do all the prison buses have the mood lights that change colors like JDUB's does? I've heard that the Chicken Ranch has that same lighting. I guess I should check with Loc to confirm.

Jon: I thought that the extra batteries and inverters would weigh something close to OTR, but did not want to dispute what I was being told. I have to admit that I really like the double slide Prevost with a King size bed and the extra room in the living/dining area and the bedroom for moving around. I think added slides are pretty much a waste as all you gain is a little more walk room. No extra room for more furniture. Also, a slide over the outside entertainment center looks like a real pain to me. I guess different likes and opinions are important. Thats why they build conversions without OTR and with plastic shields!!!:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tdelorme

"Makes me proud to own a simple no slide OTR equipped prison bus....."

Yea, and I'm happy (for now) with the bordello equiped with OTR Air.

Buy the way, do all the prison buses have the mood lights that change colors like JDUB's does? I've heard that the Chicken Ranch has that same lighting. I guess I should check with Loc to confirm.

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My prison bus does indeed have the ceiling mood lights - I didn't show you that? My right brain musta still been overloaded from my tour of your new Liberty Chez Paree.


When are you and Jan going to stop through Austin so I can return the favor of a great meal??

Per the specs on our coach;

Standard 40ft shell.................................24,610lbs
Std.shell w/90 gal aux tank......................25,427lbs
Std shell w/OTR no aux tank....................25,345lbs
Std shell w/OTR+90gal aux tank...............26,162lbs

Our 6 soon to have Lifeline 8D's weigh in at 972lbs
OTR doesn't seem weigh as much as other items added, but it may be enough to tilt the scale beyond GVWR on a new coach. Some newer Marathons have NO washer/dryer stack.

Jon,

As you say each of the AC units would pull 65 amps, then if you ran all four when bus needed to charge chassis batteries, that would be very hard on the alternator. This would be especially true without dual alternators. I could see problems with the alternators, or batteries.

I don't have any information about the Liberty and was just doing a brain dump. I am glad to see COBus has confirmed the OTR and the addition of 4 batteries and 2 inverters weight about the same so my theory wasn't too far off.

The big alternator will indeed be putting out max amperage if it is not supplemented with a second alternator to help with the heavy lifting, and that is going to really generate some heat. I presume the oil cooling will be adequate, but nevertheless anytime someting is worked to 100% of its capability its life is going to be compromised.

Most of the time I doubt if 4 AC units will be run, but still even if 2 or three are being run 50% or more of the alternator capacity is going to be dedicated just to AC units and it ignores other load such as the refrigerator. That is a case where it makes a whole lot of sense to just fire up the generator. At that point nothing on the coach is being pushed anywhere near the limits.

At some point I would like to see the specs on the coach. Knowing Liberty I highly doubt if they would push the limits like that.

"Makes me proud to own a simple no slide OTR equipped prison bus....."

What he said, I think.

The 2006 Country Coach I almost purchased in 2005, had a 500 amp Alternator to run the A/C system. I am assuming that is what Liberty is doing. The A/C units, if they are split systems would still draw air from under the bus.
Did Liberty ever have the roof air units?

The new LS series of Country Coach busses have an "Auragen" brand name- style belt driven generator off the enigne. I believe Millennium has a similar set up. That might where I remember the name of the generator. Terry Ferrell help us out?, or BoB-08?


http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003triservice/gold.pdf

Prevost states in their specs that OTR weighs 700 LBS in the new shells.

Which confirms that eliminating it, adding four more batteries and two inverters is not to save weight, but to allow AC operation from inverters.

I really believe that OTR ducting is a challenge on a non slide coach, with 2 slides it becomes a serious issue, and more than 2 slides it just borders on impossible. I think when other converters leave off OTR it is more because it complicates the design due to ducting requirements more than any other reason no matter how they try to spin it.

I agree with you Jon on OTR ducting in slide coaches,my 2 slide coach has all the window ducting on the curb side there is one overhead duct aimed at the drivers area.I was told that the 09 3 slide that Liberty sold a few months ago did not have OTR because of weight considerations but I now believe that there are also other reasons.

I suppose it could be a Prevost decision and not the converters option!??

JIM

Jim, long before slides other converters were spinning tales of how much valuable space OTR takes up, how much HP is lost driving the big compressor, and how heavy OTR is. For all but Liberty OTR was something that had to be ordered by the customer.

The converters would do other things to further cheapen the purchase price of the shell (which I really believe was their actual reason for omitting it) such as leaving off long range fuel aux tanks. At one time Angola and Liberty (If my memory is correct) were the only two converters that were ordering Prevost shells with all the options.

OTR is and always has been a serious design problem for converters. before they design the interior, they must give consideration to balancing air flow within the coach and providing the plenums for that at the rear of their cabinetry such that there are no hot and cold spots (without the benefit of dampers) and securely attaching the cabintery really requires a lot of engineering effort. Leaving it out makes the cabinetry design and installation no more complex than that of a plastic motorhome.

But now with 3 or more slides the choice may now be Prevost choice. They can no longer have one side of the coach available for ducting, and to run ducts vertically into a ceiling plenum eats up even more valuable space than just providing for the slide mechanism.

Also all H3-45 Centurions from Royale have Prevost OTR.

Alek

I understand that Liberty sold this coach yesterday,this is coach #715 which if I cipher correctly means that they have sold about 20 in the last 12 months.A Liberty is not cheap but when you buy one you also get a group of trustworthy people that stand behind their product.

Thanks for the comment about the trustworthy people, we definitely do not take that lightly and work to earn that every day.

To shed a little light about the Triple Slide, the OTR was eliminated because there is no way to duct the supply air sufficiently. The OTR weighs approximately 750lbs and with the addition of the 4 extra batteries and the 2 additional inverters you are very close to a wash. We added the 2 Bosch alternators to our specs in 2008 so our charging capacity is within spec. We are utilizing the Cruise Air systems and like other coaches we have built without OTR they are installed slightly differently to work more efficently driving down the road.

As far as usability, Carolyn and I moved in and out of 5 different coaches since April of this year, 2 of those were Triple Slide H3-45's coach 707 and 715, we traveled in various conditions including temperatures of 106 in Phoenix, AZ and high humidity upper 90's which were present in Tennessee as well as the Gulf Shores of Alabama. I can report that I ran the Starboard Mid Cruise Air, the Aft Cruise Air, the Prevost dash and the Auxiliary Prevost system; I was very comfortable (Carolyn in sweatshirt, since she is freezing) in the forward 1/2 of the coach, the aft area was warmer because of the engine heat which the OTR overcomes because of so much air movement which no other A/C system can match.

On a complete personal level, I have always been a fan of OTR and continue to be, I was pleased with the results using the Triple Slide and do not believe it or the Quad will over take the market, they both fill certain needs and I believe, along with a great many people which I have talked with, that the Double Slide units fill a greater majority of the market.

Frank,Explain What the auxiliary Prevost system is.

Thanks Frank, glad to hear from you!;)