Waiting For The Wrecker

If you have a weak stomach hit the back button, this is bad, bad.

Jan and I were headed out to West Texas to bird hunt for a few days and then down to Kerrville to mess with Loc's head for the weekend.

Those of you who run Interstate 20 from time to time know Ranger Hill. It's about a two mile incline heading west and I got a good head of steam starting up. Keep her right at 2000 RPM and was bragging about not dropping below 50 MPH when we hit the top. About four miles further down the road I started loosing power and thought I had a busted turbo tube. No such luck. Within 30 seconds I was dumping white smoke out the tail pipe and needed to get her shut down fast. Quarter of a mile to an exit and I shut her off and coasted into a Love's Truck Stop Parking lot. That was exciting. Coolant leaking from both sides of the back (our front) of the engine. A local guy called the local expert and after a long consult and a bit of testing it was determined that it's more than likely a cracked head.
Not wanting to go to an unknown shop and not wanting to bend over for Stewart & Stevenson, I've got a wrecker coming from Dallas who is going to tow the bus to the guy I know up near McKinney.
I love this old coach, but, well maybe it's time. I hate having just done the new paint and the new Firestones (which ride like a dream) and now I'm thinking to hell with it, I'm getting me a newer toy. I think I need to sleep on this one, but it's sure going to be a long night following the wrecker back to Dallas. Darn, you guys have fun down in Kerrville. I wish I drank, might help.

So sorry Ted, maybe it will be less of a problem than you expect. I hope so. Don't through in the towel on the old girl. She deserves more TLC and another chance.

If you buy something else, you will still have problems crop up and you will be starting over again with many unknowns.

JIM

Mel,

As easy as it is to pick on you, I really feel bad for you on this round.

Stuff like this should only happen to Newell owners.

Bummer.

Mike

I do feel for ya...

That's gotta be sickening. Hopefully, there will be a less painful remedy than you are considering. As hard as it will be, try to sleep on it and start with a fresh outlook in the morning.

That is a real shame....:(

Ted,

I feel bad for ya.... Just go ahead and in-frame it, the cost is not all that great for the ole 8V. Heat is the enemy, so if you do re-build it, make sure the cooling system is up to the task.

Good luck and keep us posted.;)

I feel for you on this one and agree with the rest of the crowd. Sleep on it and re-assess what you are up against. I owned a 8V92 and thought my life would be trouble free with a newer bus. Its not-just different issues. These are complicated pieces of machinery we choose to drive down the road.

Ted,

After you got stopped was the oil level high? Did you get the low expansion tank warning and light flashing code for low coolant? I think the code for that is 1 4 on the 8v92. If not maybe it's just a turbo issue. I had a liner o-ring let go a couple of years ago and will email a pdf file with the cost to do a complete in frame on your engine.

Ted this is terrible.

Oh, so terrible!! And the tow!!!:eek: Now, we are vey hesitant, Orren help us out! We have put a deposit on that coach you know we have been looking at and Jon and Di stopped yesterday to be our "1st"eyes. they gave it rave reviews. Upon our final personal acceptance, we have offered to buy a 8V-92 equipped coach: 1992 XL Beaver 40ft with 62,000 miles. Should we place the skids on this one and search for an early Series 60?
Ted's sudden engine failure seems to hint the 8V's just aren't as robust as the Series 60, and we too can expect to be sitting on the roadside waiting for AAA at some point in the future if we buy this coach.. The 3 sieries 60's we have had including the current one, have been flawless.
We are heading to Kentucky Sept. 7th to test this coach out and only driving the car to get there leaving the "H" at home.:(.

Hi Ted. Sorry to hear that. Not fun at all having to tow. Hopefully you can get back on the road soon. Once its fixed, you should have no problems with the engine for a very long time.
It might be a good opportunity to purchase a newer Prevost once its fixed, there's a lot of nice ones out there.

Thanks for all the encouragement.
We made it back to Dallas about 11PM and the coach is a couple of hours behind us. Wrecker guy is a pro. Could not be in better hands and felt ok leaving before he did.
Jim & Chris, please do not let this dampen your enthusiasm about the Beaver. My 8V has close to 200,000 miles on it. I would think the one you are looking at has a lot of miles left in her.
We will do a complete in frame overhaul and have the radiator worked over.
As a lot of you know, I bought this coach from Paul Davis. When I called him and told him what had happened, he told me to sit tight and he would get a wrecker coming from Dallas as fast as he could. He said, take Jan and go home and I will go over in the morning and get the repair started. We're not going home yet, I need to get a few things out of the bus tomorrow but it was nice of Paul to jump in and help.
We'll get through this fine, but just being without the bus is a bummer. I'm going to bed.

Jim,

My engine failure was caused by a broken o-ring on a cylinder liner, my engine had just over 189000 miles on it. Up to that point it didn't really use oil and ran great until that o-ring let go. With regards to the Beaver I'd try to read the engine codes (if it has an electronic engine) and pull an oil sample to see if there is anything in the crankcase that shouldn't be there. There's nothing wrong with 8V92 - it's a reliable proven engine. I put some 30000 miles on that engine since the rebuild and it runs great - better than before. It was probably due for a tune up anyway just a little more expensive the way it worked out.

We blew the engine in our 92 XL at 208k miles. The culprit was a radiator that was severely restricted. We had an in-frame done and replaced the radiator with a brand new one. It ran great after the in-frame and is still running great (or at least I haven't been told it isn't). I recommend to anyone with an 8V to thoroughly inspect the radiator and cooling system. I had the bus checked by two mechanics and both gave it a clean bill of health at purchase. Neither could have checked the radiator even though the cooling system was a specific item on my checklist. I think the restriction was caused by the prior owner using automotive antifreeze instead of the required low-silica diesel engine type.

If you have to be hauled in, who better than the "3" wrecker. This guy was meticulous in every step. Over two hours getting her ready to go. The last of the antifreeze that came out was about 1/3 oil.
Thanks to Orren Zook for the info on his rebuild.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...orme1/tow1.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...lorme1/tow.jpg

Jim & Chris,

Don't let this scare you off on a bus you like! Ted's not even sure what is needed at this point, but sounds like he is in good hands.

If you get the 8V and have checked it for codes, all you have to do is change and flush the cooling system and make sure it's in good condition and start from scratch. Like I said before, heat is the enemy of the 8V. If you understand how to run the 8V, watch the Pyro's and temperature, you'll love the engine. I'm sending you a PM...

Ted,

We will miss you and Jan this weekend. I was looking forward to seeing the new paint and attending your egg flipping seminar. I hope all goes well for you on the rebuild. Yell at me, if you come back out this way hunting.

Ted, Sounds like you're making all the right decisions without even sleeping on it, am impressed. :) We're very familiar with that horrible sinking feeling you get when the rear view mirror fills up with white smoke. It made me want to pull out the trusty 9mm and put her out of her misery. After all was said and done however our overhaul was a huge success. The 8V is a wonderful engine and once you know that it doesn't have a questionable "history", it will last a lifetime and beat most 60's to the top of the hill.

Ain't POG the cats?

Thanks Everyone.

Jon did pull the engine codes and there were none active. Such codes as low coolant, low oil, a total of 5 inactive codes. I think we will do a radiator flush and DO the extenede life coolant. So, we are still a "GO"!

Wow Ted - sorry to hear about your trouble. Good to hear Paul is helping you out. Always nice to buy from someone who gives a sh!t down the road(Steve Bennett will soon put my cell on the do not accept list:))

And how can you not feel good when "Skeeter" shows up to tow you in.

Hey ColoradoBus, not that I want to rain on your parade, but there are tons of 8V92 owners out there who have had to do overhauls for one reason or another. Often coolant related. And you live in the high country where you will be pulling grades a lot.

I am sure I have not heard of all the 8V92 overhaul projects that have happened, but I have become aware of many. On the other hand, I have never heard of anyone tearing into a Series 60 ( except for a few early warranty ones back in 1995).

I think owning a coach with an 8V is perfectly fine, BUT, one should set aside $20k for the overhaul to avoid disappointments. If you never have to spend it, and eventually sell the coach, gee, you have a $20k bonus to deal with.

Good luck!

Ted, sorry to hear about the breakdown, hope everything works out for you. Let me know if I can help. I'm headed thu Dallas going hunting myself, but thank goodness I don't have to go via Ranger Hill....James

The 8V series of engines (and the 6V) were the mainstays in motorcoaches, seated and otherwise) forever. They were durable simple engines, but like anything mechanical they can fail. Cooling on the two stroke engines is a primary consideration. I think they are prone to plug radiators and routine coolant maintenance is mandatory.

That is not to say the series 60 is bullet proof. There was a period of time when the S60 was having piston failures that were catastrophic.

My old 8V92 eventually needed a recoring in the radiator when it was about 10 years old and I had a crack in one head between two of the valves that was allowing coolant into the air box. But it had 250,000 miles on it at the time. The crack should not have happened, but it did. I had it rebuilt at that time, but the condition of the engine apart from the crack indicated that engine would have easily gone 500,000 miles plus.

The Beaver that Colorado bus is buying is pristine. It shows care far beyond what would be described as normal, and shows continued and constant attention to detail. I would not hesitate to buy that coach. I did recommend that Jim and Chris get it to a Detroit / Allison dealer to see if they can do an in depth analysis of the engine and transmission history because the engine did have a number of codes in its history.

Ted,

No matter what your decision you are going to repair or replace that engine. Otherwise you have an expensive boat anchor to sell.

Then as far as replacing the coach, you can make that decision after you are back driving your coach. Making a decision now is not likely to yield the best choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg

Ted,

No matter what your decision you are going to repair or replace that engine. Otherwise you have an expensive boat anchor to sell.

Then as far as replacing the coach, you can make that decision after you are back driving your coach. Making a decision now is not likely to yield the best choice.

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Yes, Jon, the engine is going to be a complete inframe overhaul.. The shop is a small family run business. Everything neat as a pin and clean. I feel much better now about the whole situation. The guy says two weeks, three at the most. He will recore the radiator and replace anything questionable as well as new belts and hoses. Says parts will not be a problem so that's good as I was worried on that one. So, yea, we will at least keep her a few months.
I did visit with Dave Wishnoff for awhile today. Nice visit, we'll see, they are real proud of their stuff, as they should be.