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I can't believe this 2001 Royale, one owner with 85K miles sold for $185K. This is surprising even when considering the economy. I kept hoping to see it had been on fire or had a blown engine but not so. Someone must have been desperate to sell. Does anyone know anything about this bus that isn't explained in the ad?
http://offer.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/...m=220436074663
That sure looked like a nice coach. The generator showed some hours on it so it indicates they spent some time dry camping or they ran it while driving to use the AC units. Other than that nothing seemed noteworthy.
It does show this to be a buyer's market. Unfortunately for anyone selling a coach this low price impacts the selling prices of all other coaches because buyers will see this as a benchmark.
Jon,
That's exactly what I am thinking about the benchmark. Of course, I am always a little skeptical when the seller uses the private auction and doesn't show who the buyer is.
I hope we see this one back on the market for a more reasonable price. I doubt that there are many of us that would sell our 1997-2000 model for that price. I wouldn't.
Cheap sales on e-bay are not always what they appear!:rolleyes:
Truk is right.
You cannot smell a coach that has been smoked in for its whole life, and no matter how good the photos they will never show the small signs of abuse. We don't know if it had an accident history. It might have a low price because it has had a fire and the repairs were of poor quality. We actually will not know without seeing the coach.
But that doesn't matter. People in the market will see a coach being sold for that price and their mind considers all coaches on the market worth what that one brought. The impact is far reaching. It not only affects the selling price of coaches but it affects how existing coaches are maintained.
An owner that decides to sspend some Lewbucks to upgrade an interior for example either will not do it or will do it as cheaply as possible if their coach is perceived as being worth little or nothing. If a coach has a market value of $300,000 which that one did prior to the sale, the owner might be more than happy to spend $30,000 redoing the interior. But when it is perceived to be worth less than $200,000 by a wide margin that owner will be wasting money to put that amount in a coach worth so little. So instead the coach ends up looking a little shabby. And the people who make money refurbishing coaches lose even more business.
It also impacts new coach sales. Anyone thinking of trading for a new coach realizes it makes no sense to buy one when the value lost over time is so enormous.
We don't know the whole story here except that the value of every coach in the market just went down even more.
Have a glance at the inventory at Desert West. Asking 250 for a 2002 XLII 45 Country Coach, 2000 Vantare XLV at 189, 1998 Marathon H3 for 175 and so on. His plastic coaches are even worse.....2007 43 foot Dutch Star with 8000 miles for 159..............yikes! Do not know how much "wiggle room" there is in any of these but I would bet that there is some....just don't show up with a trade :eek:
Looks like those of us in the TBC have been granted Life Membership!
John
I guess if there's any good news at all, it's that there is still a relatively small supply of bus conversions in existence.
Hopefully, all the "bargains" will be snapped up by those savvy enough to buy them and that will lead to a shortage of supply when the inevitable demand returns, although that is likely to be several years.
Not many new busses being converted today (if any) that aren't already sold, so hopefully that will also tip the balance of supply and demand somewhat in the favor of sellers, someday down the road.
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it :D
Helps me sleep at night.......:)
Some of the buses at Desert West appear to be great buys. Others have 500K miles. Not an encouraging site any way we look at;;;;;;unless you are in the market for a bus.
Just helps me realize I need to make any additions to mine that I want to with the thought of keeping it for the long haul.
The 01 Royale is back on ebay at 279K by the same seller.
I think you are correct Paul in a lot of ways. There were quite a number of buses on the market from late last year through March or so that are gone now. Lots of folks on the hunt pulled the trigger (me included) and within a couple of months the available inventory of pre-owned coaches dropped quite a bit. Marathon Dallas moved a dozen or more very quickly that had been around. Look at all the "sold" labels on RVonline listings (sorry Jim).Quote:
Originally Posted by phorner
Obviously that doesn't address the complete supply/demand picture, but the overhang of current inventory has been significantly reduced. It seems to me at some point the prices should firm up unless there are lots more coming in.
Wonder what happen to the high bidder at 185K. E-bay listing stated "NO RESERVE, HIGHEST BIDDER WINS" by Florida RV. Then listing reappeares with buy-it-now price of 279K. Who was the high bidder at 185K? Buyer beware of "NO RESERVE" bidding.
I'm glad to see it relisted. That's the reason I said I am skeptical of the private listings on eBay. I think some of those bid on their own listing in order to drive up prices. Sometimes that backfires.
You know there has to be some kind of scam going on with that coach. It appeared to be bought at $185 and now it is back listed with a "Buy It Now"?
Same thing happen a few months back with an H345, so it makes you wonder if the seller just goes in and bids the minimum price he will take, then lets everyone bid along thinking someone is going to get the thing for cheap. Seems kinda disingenuous eh?
If $185K is the minimum they'd take for a nice XLII, we may be back in the coach market sooner than I thought!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Winchester
Red Storm Take Two...
Dunno know about the E-Bay although as many of us know, scams are run on a regular basis. I can state that Desert West deals with a large number of repo's. The one with all of the miles, no doubt, was an entertainer however the others....just some poor sod who couldn't make the payments. They really have a couple of fantastic buy's....that 02 for a quarter of a million looks pretty nice, and that's the truth, especially if 200 + cash can take it! Other than the entertainer all of the rest appear to be within reason..............
John
It's the age old e-bay auction trick.. Get someone to help run up the "No Reserve" price and if it doesn't bring enough, pay the listing fee and start all over again.:rolleyes:
At Desert West http://www.desertwestcoach.com/, there's just no way to compete with a 2002 Country Coach for $250,000 or a 2000 Vantaré for $189,000. So we'll keep ours, which we're doing a fine job of anyway!
I' have seen some very good buys on several sites. Nothing of that level of 187000 to 250000 for an XL. There has to be real issues with those prices.
I have noticed Liberty's Website, for used Coaches, has reduced their inventory.
All of this deflation has created havoc in this country. Lets hope it is ending.
Is this deflation or is the pricing reflecting supply and demand? I don't ever expect the prices of our buses to rise. I think as the economy improves I expect the selling prices will stay the same and hold at that level for a long time. I think the key to the restoration of the market for coaches is going to be financing.
The value of our coaches (compared to prices) has not diminished however. We still enjoy our coach as much as we ever did and it does not matter what others are selling their coaches for because we are neither buying or selling.
Wayne Mullis of Desert West is a straight up guy and operates one of the better shops in the south west. I suspect that the coaches he has are on someones "toxic asset" list and have been priced accordingly. What does remain is the impact that pricing has on the market place; I would venture to guess that nearly everyone who has one of these coaches financed and has owned it for a couple of years or more, is upside down. As Jon said, forget about it, keep it and enjoy it! Adding something to the "for what its worth list", think it is prudent to have an agreed value on the coach with your insurance carrier, just in case. It would really be the pits to have your coach burn down and get paid off at a value far below what is owed........
John
Its only an effect of deflation, supply and demand. Deflation is basically prices moving downward. What has been occuring for the last two years has been a decline in purchasing because of values retreating.
You can argue that for the last 6 or 8 years prices were getting out of whack and we are now going thru an adjustment.
People wait to purchase until they see proof prices will no longer go down. So, unless a person has a need to purchase, he waits.
Now, the pendulum has swung too far the other way and prices are real cheap for certain products.
Here is a link regarding deflation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation
"In economics, deflation refers to a general reduction in the level of prices below zero percent year-on-year inflation. Deflation should not be confused with a temporary fall in prices; instead, it is a sustained fall in prices that occurs when the inflation rate passes down below zero percent."
Last year the US economy inflated at 3.85%, the highest level in 10 years and that's if you believe the pundits who publish the data, in any case that number certainly appears to be watered down! While inflation thus far this year has been very low, the government printing presses runnning 24/7 are soon to change all of that. It is already happening at the fuel pump, the grocery store, even to the tax man.......... The greater worry is something that has been appropriately named, stag-flation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation
Not that any of this directly relates to today's price for a Prevost, in a way it does. Thus far we have seen supply side economics working, supply simply outstrips demand....prices fall especially on items that are non essential or luxury in nature. Busses, boats, vacation homes, airplanes, trips overseas....even the poor dentist....hey, they are all down. Let's hope this is a short lived event, now I'll go back to reading Ayn Rand:D
Oh to find that valley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by flyu2there