Planning on flying into Orlando next Monday and staying in Winterhaven to be able to hit Marathon and Parliament to the west, Liberty, and some for sale by owners to the south. :cool:
Any other specific recommendations?
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Planning on flying into Orlando next Monday and staying in Winterhaven to be able to hit Marathon and Parliament to the west, Liberty, and some for sale by owners to the south. :cool:
Any other specific recommendations?
Don't forget Floriday Luxury Coach, http://www.floridaluxurycoach.com/ and right behind them in the same compound is Millennium Luxury Coach http://www.millenniumluxurycoaches.com/preowned.html
Not sure if they still have any busses to look at the Old Featherlite complex or not? http://www.featherlitecoaches.com/ Featherlite used to be just down the street from Florida and Millennium on the same street.
This should be lots of fun... Good luck.
Gary S.
Gordon,
Andre Ducote (ajducote) posted a few days ago that an older gentleman that lived in TGO in Titusville was seriously interested in selling a Prevost. You might want to PM or email Andre and get the info from him.
Good Luck, hope you find a nice one!
I went looking for this guy and could not find him. He may have already left.
Andre Ducote (ajducote) posted a few days ago that an older gentleman that lived in TGO in Titusville was seriously interested in selling a Prevost. You might want to PM or email Andre and get the info from him.
Gordon & Jennifer,
I'd be happy to throw in a couple of tickets to our show in Palm Beach Gardens on Tuesday night if you like. We'll be staying at the Juno Beach RV Resort Friday-Wednesday if you want to come by and say hi.
Happy shopping!
~Adam
That's what I call down home hospitality.
How cool is that.
Looks like this will be a trip that's all play and no work for Jennifer and Gordon
Gordon, take Adam up on his offer of concert tickets. Jan and I went to their Marshall, TX. concert a couple of weeks back. More fun than we have had in a long time. Like one reviewer said, "these guys are good." That's an understatement, these guys are as good as it gets!
Gordon,
I have bought two coaches from Marathon Florida. The second one was January of this year. I worked with Fred Green, a terrific guy. The first one was with Mark who is now with Parliament, another terrific guy.
Call me on my cell and I will go through the pricing dynamics I found.
There could not be a better time to take care of the MPD....IMHO.
My cell is:949-300-0077...that is a West Coast number.
Good luck
Mike & Jean
All the info is much appreciated....
Appointment set with Millenium - thanks for the reminder Gary.
Tuga, there are a couple of for sale by owners in the PSL area that I am setting up times with - maybe one of them is your guy??
Adam, I will indeed take you up on you offer. Will change our hotel reservation down to that area for Tuesday night. Sounds like lots of fun. Will shoot you a note once I get the schedule a little more firmed up.
Mike, thanks for the heads up. I have been working through one of their Dallas salesman who is setting up one of the FL guys to show the coaches. I will definitely give you a call.
Gordon check the 2007 Vantare H thats on R V Online it sure sounds like a steal I'am not good with directions but it might be in the same neck of the woods. Have fun shopping!!!!:) I think it's price @ $599K don't think it will last to long. But I been wrong before.
Gordon,
Give us an idea what your looking for, year range and maybe others can help. At PSL, if one of them is a 98 Liberty, call me or talk to Lew first.;)
Great. We'll look forward to meeting you! Offer is good for any other POGers down that way as well. We play a show in Boca Raton on Saturday night (April 18, 8PM) and then another one in Palm Beach Gardens (at the Eissey Campus Theater... an AMAZING hall, at 7PM on Tuesday the 21st.) And we are staying at Juno Beach RV Resort, after a bunch of y'all recommended it. So come on by and say hi.
If you're in the Port St. Lucie area, stop by the Outdoor Resorts and say hello..... we're on Lot 25 and would be happy to meet you.
We purchased our Liberty coach from Fred Green at Marathon in San Antonio. Real nice guy but, if Marathon states that a bus has "had a complete PDI", I would want to see for myself exactly what was done. Their definition is loose to say the least.
We took them at their word and found out later by personal inspection that some important items were either missed or ignored.
Have fun shopping!!! :)
Thanks Paul, would love to meet you. Will check up with you during our whirlwind tour on our timing.
The $599 Vantare is a little north of our budget for our first bus. Wanting to stick with something somewhat less than that to ensure we like it. Probably the type of logic that leads to membership in the TBC.:eek:
I am specifically looking at a couple of 2000 model XLV's and a couple of earlyish XLII's (<2003). Other than that, it is an open book (or checkbook as it were).
Also want to say that Joe your comment from the first page of this thread is so true. Great folks here offering all kinds of help and even admission to their shows! We are going to have a good time if I can keep the blackberry from tracking me down...
I am at Parliament for a long weekend stay and Mark the sales guy showed me a 2000 Vantare that he is going to show Gordon. Very nice coach.
Parliament is treating us great. I needed a place to park near Tampa so the wife could go to a class in town Friday afternoon. Ken and Mark were nice enough to let us spend the weekend here with full hookups. The only drawback is that there are a LOT of very nice coaches to droll over. The boss has already given me the evil eye, so I need to be careful and go into stealth mode and see what I can find that I could talk her into. ( not very likely thou)
Gordon, I think you will like these people here. Very nice and easy going.
Yes I think that is the one. I looked at a bunch and might have gotten confused. At any rate, the one he said he was going to show you was beautiful.
Featherlite sent me an e-mail today: http://fthrc.com/listing.php?type=all
$250,000.00 off all Coaches!
Liberty is having a similar sale. Except instead of being $250,000 off all coaches it is $1.00 off of some selected coaches.
Actually Liberty has a 98 Liberty that has been on their inventory for a long time. I looked at it when making a deal on our Royale. It appeared to be a beauty and would imagine that it could be had for a very good price. Would suggest however that the PDI should be monitored very carefully to make sure all discrepancies are found and dealt with. A second (unbiased) set of eyes would be a good idea. My experience in dealing with the folks at Stuart was very good and they were more than willing to rectify the issues that I asked them to take care of.
They actually have a couple of interesting buses Brian that have been around for a while. We shall see how interested they are in selling them.
One question - are you basically saying don't trust them with the PDI although if you do happen to catch something they will be happy to fix it? I understand the general terms of buyer beware but am just curious if you experienced any particulars?
Gordon,
It seemed to me that there are a couple of scenarios with a Liberty resale. If they have done their full prep on the bus, it probably has new batteries, a very nice interior and exterior detail, new tires if they are not almost perfect, a very good normal service with all fluids (maybe excluding coolant) being drained and replaced and a very thorough functional check of systems. In my case some of these items were negotiated in the sale and I expect that may have been a result of the changes in the economy. All I'm suggesting is that they are very capable of excellent service. It may be however, that your inspection may determine the extent of the PDI....Hence the suggestion of a second set of eyes and your own check of system functionality.
With regard to coolant. If there is no record of recent replacement, and you don't have the inclination to do it yourself, would suggest you bite the bullet if necessary and have them do it with extended life coolant. Since the Liberty uses the Webasto heating system the process of changing and bleeding the system is somewhat involved. If you were to have them do this service, get involved, take notes and snap some digitals. You'll be glad you did.
Good advice - thanks Brian.
Gordon,
I think speaking generically that everything is negotiable when buying a coach. Instead of accepting the representation that all maintenance is up to date, I suggest you see the proof for yourself in the form of receipts. Match what has been done against the recommended maintenance schedule.
If there are no receipts and you accept someone's word, I would like to talk to you about a bridge I have up in Brooklyn.
In the absence of documentation I would suggest you pick a number that represents what you feel the maintenance will cost you to "zero" out the maintenance so you have a starting point for all recommended scheduled maintenance. At least that way you know when everything has been done and you start the maintenance as though the coach were new.
As Brian says coolant is a consideration, and since it is a pain to change you need to determine how to value that.
I would buy from a dealer with the proviso they zero out all maintenance and time related items, such as 10 year old air bags. Every dealer justifies their prricing on the basis of a coach bought from them has had a complete going over, so make that happen or get a price that is in the range of a private sale price. I would have no problem buying from a dealer As-Is if the price reflected that.
If buying from an individual recognize as soon as the wheels leave his driveway you are on your own. In fact once money changes hands you are on your own. The price needs to reflect the risk, and you probably should have someone very familiar with coaches (and who is completely impartial) go through the coach and report the findings. If everything does not work then you and the seller need to decide how it will be handled. No matter who you buy from at the very least get Detroit and Allison to read the codes and give a report on the condition of the engine or transmission.
If you do not get specific on the coach you want, but are open to anything available within a broad price range it is gong to be very hard to determine a fair price. Once you zero in on a particular conversion you can do the research to find out a price range and as you look at various representations of the desired coach you will know it is right. You will have the eureka moment.
Gordon,
That green & white 2001 Vantare is BEAUTIFUL! That one has my vote; hope you can make a good deal on it. Tell Ken Robertson to give you a TUGA discount (1/2 off):D
I like the Tuga discount!:eek: That is a pretty snappy paint job isn't it???
As usual Jon, thanks for your sage advice....
I am with Jon on this. Before I made any offer I would want to see every receipt for every service and upgrade that has been done to this bus by both the dealer and the previous owner.
Personally if the dealer could not, would not offer this, i would move on without exception.
Have you considered having a Carfax done for the bus, accidents etc. When i made my purchase I required that the seller warrantee that the bus had not been in an accident, had no damage, fire, other major damage that could pop it's little head up at a later date.
I have purchased a lot of larger boats over the years. Pirates started on the water than moved onto land to sell boats, and I got my buyers masters degree buying used boats over the years, made every mistake possible. I liken Buses to boats and feel that sellers (both dealers, private sellers) have and will forget to offer important details that might provide important facts about the purchase.
I am still convinced that the purchase price is only 66.66% of the selling price. The remaining 33.33% is after the purchase, and the only way one can close the gap is to be a fully informed buyer.
There is no bus, boat, plane on the planet that is a good deal if it has sat for a long time without being carefully maintained, run, serviced, and all surfaces cared for, paint, roof, interior surfaces, leather, wood work, ceiling all of it.
That is the stuff you can see, the rest is the really hard to consider.
Add it all up and you have the answer to your buying question. Add or subtract the stuff that is there, has been done or neglected.
All good advice. It definitely pays real dividends to be an informed buyer.
That being said, don't let the "technical" side of searching for a bus overwhelm the fun of shopping!
It takes serious money to purchase and maintain a Prevost bus. But the "adventure" of ownership is priceless.
My only point is that you can't be so consumed with trying not to make a single mistake that you miss out on the enjoyment of ownership.
Once you're satisfied that the "major" stuff is acceptable, you can probably be a little less critical in your scrutiny.
Just my opinion...... I simply want to encourage you to enjoy the search as much as possible and try not to make it into another "job".....
I exaggerated the values somewhat, but it is important to set aside enough $ mentally during the negotiating process so you do not get burned. Again without good supporting paperwork then one must assume the seller is either sloppy, has something to hide, or is so forgetful that he has forgotten more than the paperwork. Also the bus like an aircraft, allow for an hourly operating cost. Jon is really good with these numbers and can give you a better insight on these expenses.
I would not steer away from ownership because of this, but just be fully informed when shopping. there are some great dealers and brokers out there and I know we have several on POG who are good standing members. Not all are as good as our POG friends and have little to gain by telling you about all the stuff that needs to be done while you are inspecting a potential bus.
Good luck and we all hope you find the right bus.
Gordon,
Don't get too scared about the after purchase expenses. They are discretionary. If you need to upgrade the interior, add flat screen TVs or do any other big budget items look for a coach where that stuff is done. The residual value of those upgrades is almost zero so let the previous owner take the hit financially.
Gordon,
We have purchased two buses. I planned on an expenditure of 10% of the purchase price of each bus to fix needed items like tires, batteries, and other anticipated needs. I spent about 8% on the first bus in the first year. I have spent about 5% on the second bus in the first year. Even if you have great maintenance records count on having some expenses. I hit the 10% target on both buses by the second year. These are great machines but they are not cheap to keep.
Jon, your assumption is somewhat skewed based on your own skill levels in my opinion.
If the first time buyer does not have access to this forum or your skills, it is possible to find oneself with some large expense items out of the gate that get missed during the purchase process.
I do not think that most first time buyers (me included) think that a low mileage bus (7, to 10 years old ) would necessarily need all new house batteries, tires, shocks, or bags, chassis batteries, and more, and might not fully understand the cost for the above along with the other stuff, it can add up quickly.
What's more unless you hire an independent survey of your desired purchase the number could rise significantly, as the dealer/seller in most cases will not offer the negative details knowing that it will not benefit the sale in his favor.
Buses are nothing like plastic RV's, the size, the construction, the safety requirements, the air systems, all of it is much different than what most plastic RV owners have been used to. So the transition from plastic to stainless is a large step and should be made with eyes open and with some really careful investigation and commitment to inspecting the underbelly of each bus under consideration before making the purchase.
I do not care who is selling the bus, manufacturer, best dealer in the world, nicest little old lady school teacher or the crown prince of ??. The purchase is just the starting point.
Bruce,
I have to strongly disagree.
First, tires, batteries, a full maintenance are all negotiable items. You buy a coach cheap to reflect you will replace them, or you make the seller do them to close the deal, or you and the seller agree on some price that reflects their replacement.
None of the above requires any skill level beyond doing a little homeowrk by reading this site.
Obviously as coaches age other items such as air bags and Norgren valves, brake chambers and shock absorbers loom as an expense. Again, reading the many posts on this site makes a buyer aware there is more to a bus than oil changes. But even if the buyer has no mechanical skills the cost to replace and maintain these doesn't even begin to come close to the real expense of bus ownership which is depreciation.
If I had to spend $4000 to replace air bags that is about $400 per year considering their ten year life. Everything else I mentioned is substantially less. If you do the work yourself costs obviously are less, but even paying someone to maintain the coach when the costs are annualized they just are not that much compared to the loss of earnings on the invested capital.
Tires are going to vary based on the sizes used, but I doubt if any of us spends more than $1500 annually for tires which last 6 years with care, or $500 per year on batteries which last 5 years with care.
My point is the serious money spent on these buses is depreciation and discretionary items (like the big bucks a guy spent putting fat tires on his bus). Beyond that all dollars are for fuel and routine maintenance.
BTW, (I'm going to pull your chain here......) when you had Prevost analyze the electrical problem as an isolator you paid them serious money to do what I had asked you to do on this site. Had you done what I asked it would have taken a few minutes of your time and then all it would have cost you was the cost of the isolator and the time to deal with about 7 fasteners. Owners decide by their actions how much owning these buses cost. This site has many people that will give freely of their time to lead an owner to the most effective and least expensive way to address a need.
Buses are nothing like plastic RV's, the size, the construction, the safety requirements, the air systems, all of it is much different than what most plastic RV owners have been used to.
Bruce,
I don't think the step to a bus from a plastic, all electric, 45' diesel pusher is such a big deal. You mention size, air systems and safety requirements, all of which the plastic coaches have, but will have somewhat different systems. They are going to have issues with electrical and air just like we have and I don't get the safety requirement comment. I've had both and I think the buses have cost me less than the plastic out of warranty pushers.
One thing for certain, the bus support whether it's Prevost or the Converter, puts the entire plastic industry to shame!
So far, tires have been the largest single cost. Even with tires you have a choice in costs . I've replaced all batteries at reasonable costs. All maintenance has been pretty reasonable. No big expenses to date.
Gee Jon, I guess I hit a sensitive cord.
Your response actually reinforces my point.
If the first time buyer does not have access to this forum or your skills, it is possible to find oneself with some large expense items out of the gate that get missed during the purchase process.
You and many others speak with authority, much experience, (Bus Barn/replete with Pit) and years of ownership, and in some cases several bus purchases.
I was referring to the "NEW" buyer who was transitioning from a plastic RV to a BUS. There are so many reasons to be careful in this transition that differ from a plastic bus. Example: Many Plastic RV owners purchased their units new with warrantee's, some warrantee's 3 years, so these folks expected they would have access to service without question for this period.
A used Bus is a very different animal, and the learning curve is greater as well. That was my point.
No body in my opinion buys a bus, and views it like one would an aircraft that is used for business. We were all trained to view aircraft this way and considered each hour with a specified expense item. If anyone purchases a bus with the idea that it is not a depreciating asset, he is delusional in my opinion. Buses are toys and toys are an expense.
PS> The Fat tires really make for a better safer ride which is why they are standard equipment on newer XLII's today. Yes I paid too much.
The electrical issue was another thing, it was complicated (above my pay grade) by the fact that when Marathon in it's infinite wisdom decided to move the regulator output monitoring to the house side (instead of the Chassis) on a single 270 alternator bus installation which does play havoc with the chassis side if there is an issue with the house batteries. Yes I did have 2 issues to deal at one time, and yes I did trip over my feet, I am good at this , had some company along with Prevost Car and Marathon until we determined how Marathon modified the regulator monitoring which is the case on all single 270 alternator coaches. I am having a second chassis alternator installed. some times it is the little stuff that converters forget to share that can cause big problems unless you know in advance.
Bruce,
You are correct in that a new buyer who has not found his way here prior to the purchase may expose him or herself to some serious after purchase expenses.
This is especially the case when the decor becomes the deciding factor and the salesman says these are million mile buses without explaining that they reach that milestone by getting good routine maintenance.
The focus is on the cost to own one of these buses. A buyer that does not use all the resources available becomes a test pilot and assumes a lot of risk. A buyer that uses forums like this to learn the market, the specifics about coaches of interest, how to evaluate a prospective purchase, and where to tap into available expertise has saved thousands, and maybe tens of thousands compared to the buyer who has done no homework.
But we on this forum are talking to potential Prevost owners who are in fact doing their homework. Apart from routine maintenance these new buyers will have few if any surprises, and any serious money they spend after the purchase will likely be at their option, not because they overlooked something.
We cannot help those that will not help themselves.
When I bought the first bus there was no resources such as the internet or forums of this type. Before we closed the deal we looked at as many coaches as possible, we visited a converter and asked a lot of dumb questions, I spoke to Harvey Mitchell who sold the coach to the previous owners and who knew the coach very well, and then I had a converter (Don Hoffman of Hoffman Coaches) do a 100% inspection. My wife liked the decor, but I was all over that coach mechanically with Don and it turned out to be a trouble free coach that only required routine stuff.
No mechanical aptitude is required to own a coach, only a willingness to pay attention to details and do some homework.
I think I'll have to side with Bruce a bit on this. When we were looking, I joined this forum and got some great advice. I knew absolutely nothing about these machines. We had an older plastic coach a few years ago that the most expensive thing ever done was replace the radiator. I could not believe that would cost $700. And then we got the bus. The advice here, and what I was looking for, was converter advice. Didn't know what else to ask. The coach we decided on from a private party had been at Liberty and Mellinium on consignment. Both told us what a great coach it was and what good condition it was in. The guy we bought it from had a private mechanic that took care of it for him. They both said the tires were great, the batteries new, that he was recognized as the king of car sales in Chicago, never advertised because he was such a good guy and everybody bought from him and were very happy. Customer was number one. He showed us all his glorious press clippings. The coach was only driven by his driver and was only used for transportation for his wife because she didn't like to fly on his jet. We were snowed.
Why didn't I ask more technical questions here? Because I had no idea what to ask about things I didn't even know about. We bought it for quite a bit less than an identical coach sold for at Liberty at the same time, so when the expenses started adding up, we thought we had that margin built in. Tires, batteries, suspension, satellite dish, inverter wiring, and on and on took their toll. Surely we could have made those expenses discretionary, but if it's not right, it gets fixed. We have no regrets because we now have a coach that we know is in great condition.
Going in, we had no idea what lay ahead. I think we had on those rose colored glasses. If buying a bus was purely a logical choice, I'm sure we would never have been on this adventure. But heck, it's only money and a whole lot of fun.